Vile Darkness as an official resource

[hamishspence]

I have seen many posts on other D&D related sites insisting that Vile Darkness is not well thought out, is 3rd ed so not official in 3.5, and, one person insisted players cannot use it in Living Greyhawk, Living Greyhawk is the only official setting, therefore Vile Darkness is not official so has no bearing on alignment discussions.

While I disagree with that last, here is quote from RPGA Living Greyhawk section of WOTC site, proving it to be wrong even if you accept that last theory.

Q: Is casting a spell with the [Evil] descriptor an evil act? If so, can I cast these spells?

A: The Players Handbook is unclear on this issue, and it has led to much debate. Fortunately, the Book of Vile Darkness, the authoritative source on evil deeds, provides insight into this topic. Page 8 of this source lists casting evil spells as an evil act while page 77 indicates that spells with the evil descriptor are evil spells. While the Book of Vile Darkness is not an a player resource in the Living Greyhawk campaign, these statements provide a fairly definitive statement that casting spells with the evil descriptor is an evil act.

That said, the Book of Vile Darkness goes on to say “ometimes, a nonevil spellcaster can get away with casting a few evil spells, as long as he or she does not do so for an evil purpose. But the path of evil magic leads quickly to corruption and destruction.” Player characters cannot have an evil alignment in the Living Greyhawk campaign, but occasional evil acts are not forbidden. Your PC can cast an [Evil] spell without necessarily becoming evil; however, we urge casters of evil spells not to cross over into true corruption, or one day you will be turned over to your Triad, and on that day you may become an NPC.

Authoritive source is pretty explicit, making it clear that even in Living Greyhawk, Vile Darkness is NOT invalid.

 

[ivocaliban]

This is the first I've heard of the debate regarding The Book of Vile Darkness, but I agree with the answer given 100%. It's pretty much how I've dealt with good/neutral casters casting evil spells in the past.

I do keep track of the evil spells cast, however, noting the level of the spell and the way in which it was used. While I have no set formula for dealing with the corruption of the caster, if my record shows a pattern of abuse, then I may enforce an alignment change to the offending character.

 

[Umbran]

Authoritive source is pretty explicit, making it clear that even in Living Greyhawk, Vile Darkness is NOT invalid.

I don't play Living Greywawk, but I can say this - the fact that they refer to a published work for inspiration on a ruling does not imply that they accept that book in its entirety as "official".

And, outside of the Living games, "official" is not a particularly meaningful term. What is "official" means much less than what works well for one particular group at their particular games.

 

[pawsplay]

You're not even allowed to reference more than the title and a few game terms from the BoVD on the Gleemax forums except in the Mature area.

 

[Varianor Abroad]

Doesn't look like it's an official player resource to me, based upon that quote.

While the Book of Vile Darkness is not a player resource in the Living Greyhawk campaign

Emphasis added.

 

[Kesh]

BoVD may not be Core, but it's as official as it gets (being a WotC product). I think a lot of the reluctance to use it comes down to the subject matter, more than the rules themselves.

 

[hamishspence]

Player resource vs DM resource

I looked more at the phrase: the authoritative source on evil deeds.

That is to say: no, players should not use this book, spells feats and items are for evil characters.

But, DM's should, for some monsters, and most importantly for a list of evil acts and the importance of context.

So "What BoVD says is evil is errrr EVIL!" is what DMs should say to players who do nasty things in game and insist they are being Good.

In Any case, DMG stresses that DM is in charge of alignments, not players. DM should tell players if they are long overdue an alignment shift. And should tell them when they start a campaign that their alignment is being tracked.

at the same time, DMs should show leniency on alignments, giving players, especially new ones, some warning "I say, that sounds like a rather evil act to me, are you sure you want your character to do that"

Since PH is not very detailed, DMs should not be shy about using Vile Darkness (and Fiendish Codex II) as guidelines to the sort of behaviour unacceptable in Good or Neutral PCs for any length of time.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

While I've never been one to respect any supplemental book as authoratative or necessary as part of any game, I do agree with the BoVD's comments on [evil] spells. It is still beyond the scope of my imagination how anyone can deny that casting an [evil] spell is an Evil act, though I can understand DMs removing the [evil] tag from certain/all spells as a house ruling.

 

[megamania]

BoVD may not be Core, but it's as official as it gets (being a WotC product). I think a lot of the reluctance to use it comes down to the subject matter, more than the rules themselves.

agreed

 

[pawsplay]

BoVD may not be Core, but it's as official as it gets (being a WotC product). I think a lot of the reluctance to use it comes down to the subject matter, more than the rules themselves.

Why do you think that?