D&D General War- What's it Good For? How to Handle Rules Conflicts

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
EN WORLD+
If you haven't read the first post in the series, How To Read Rules, I recommend doing so. It lays out what I think is pretty basic, clear, and easy-to-understand rule from B/X, and explains how to interpret that rule. But most rules arguments aren't about easy-to-understand rules. Unless you are Derek. NO, DEREK, I DON'T NEED TO HEAR YOUR DIATRIBE ABOUT WHY FIGHTERS IN 5e REALLY GET d12 HIT POINTS AGAIN, DEPENDING ON THE DEFINITION OF "HIT" AND "POINTS!"

Instead, it can be because rules are complicated, written poorly, or don't play well with other rules. And, in some cases .... there are no obvious or correct answers because the rules themselves conflict with other rules, in whole or in part. So today, I am going to provide some examples of rules from the past that still leave a lot of people scratching their heads, and why there is no simple answer to them.

Note the first- this doesn't include flat-out mistakes, like when AD&D originally used the wrong tables (as thieves) for monks (as clerics) that were later corrected. There are flat-out conflicts. Why? GYGAX!!!!!!!

Note the second- I am using examples from older editions because, with time, passions fade. As we have all learned because no one cares to argue about 4e anymore. Right?

So, let's go through some examples and analysis!

1. Soulless, dead-eyed elves stay dead. OR DO THEY?

If there's one thing we all know, it's that the only thing more satisfying than a dead elf is two dead bards. But if there is another thing we all know, it's that there is a great puzzle at the heart of AD&D. Specifically- what do you do with a dead elf? I mean, other than celebrate? Let's start with the basic fact- Gygax liked to bury some important rules, so a lot of people who played back then weren't even aware of this very important rule- ELVES COULD NOT BE BROUGHT BACK FROM THE DEAD. That's right. You couldn't resurrect them. You don't bring 'em back, they don't pass go, they don't collect 200 electrum pieces. So, why was this rules obscure? Two reasons-
1. The rule, like the elves, sucked. I mean ... it was classic Gygaxian "balancing." "Sure, Ima make Elves get all these cool bonuses and abilities, in exchange for NEVER BEING ABLE TO GET RESURRECTED IN A SUPER DEADLY GAME! Muahahahahahaha. How you like dem Gygax apples?" And the one thing we know is that rules that suck get applied ... inconsistently. See also, level caps on demi-humans.
2. The rule was genuinely obscure. Here is the text of the resurrection spell in 1e-
Explanation/Description: The cleric employing this spell is able to restore life and complete strength to the person he/she bestows the resurrection upon. The person can have been dead up to 10 years cumulative per level of the cleric casting the spell, i.e. a 19th level cleric can resurrect the bones of a person dead up to 190 years. See raise dead for limitations on what persons can be raised. The reverse, destruction, causes the victim of the spell to be instantly dead and turned to dust. Destruction requires a touch, either in combat or otherwise. The material components of the spell are the cleric's religious symbol and holy/unholy water. Employment of this spell makes it impossible for the cleric to cast further spells or engage in combat until he or she has had one day of bed rest for each level of experience of the person brought back to life or destroyed.

It says nothing about elves! Oh, but wait. "See raise dead for limitations on what persons can be raised." Huh. Do signals mean anything in AD&D? Um, yeah. So let's look at the relevant portion of Raise Dead to see the "limitation on what persons can be raised."

"When the cleric casts a raise dead spell, he or she can restore life to a dwarf, gnome, half-elf, halfling, or human." Oh. It gives a list and it omits elves. There has to be Latin for that (there is). So that is why the rule is so hidden. If you went to resurrection, you'd have to see the cross-reference to raise dead buried in it, then go look at raise dead, and then notice that elves are specifically omitted from the list of critters you can resurrect. This also answers questions like, "Why is there a separate reincarnation spell, and why does that spell specify that 'Any sort of player character can be reincarnated{?}" So the rule is somewhat difficult to tease out, but once you see it, you can't unsee it. What's the conflict? Well, the next year, we had the publication of the DMG. And in it-

Rod of Resurrection: This rod enables the cleric to resurrect the dead — even elven, dwarven, gnome, or halfling — as if he or she were of high enough level to cast the spell, and no rest will be required as the rod bestows the lifegiving effects.

Wait, wut? It functions like the spell. Cool. But it provides an "even" exception for elves, dwarves, gnomes, and halflings. Except .... except than dwarves, gnomes, and halflings can already be resurrected! This makes no sense as an explanation, or a rule. So ... how can we harmonize the rules conflict?

Elves cannot be resurrected, unless it is by a rod of resurrection. Specific beats general.

But wait, there is another conflict waiting. In 1981, we have Deities & Demigods providing the full explanation- AD&D assumes that the anlma, that force which gives life and distinct existence to thinking beings is one of two sorts: soul or spirit. Humans, dwarves, halflings, gnomes and half-elves (those beings which can have a raise dead or resurrection spell cast upon them) all have souls: all other beings that worship deities have spirits. This latter group Includes (but is not limited to) elves, orcs, half-orcs, and the other creatures specifically mentloned in the NONHUMANS DEITIES section of this work.

Now, the general "best practices" when construing rules is that newer material supersedes older material. Here, we have full explanation that the reason you can't bring elves back from the dead is that (as always) Snarf was right and they are soulless and dead-eyed. Also? Because resurrection and raise dead only work on souls, not spirits. So the entire premise of the Rod of Resurrection doesn't work on elves. Except it explicitly states that it does, even though the mechanism cannot.

So, that's one example of a conflict. Or maybe not? MAGIC!


2. "You think Gygax hates Thieves? Hold my beer." -Every Illusionist

This one is much more simple and straightforward. This is from the description of the 1e Illusionist-
The magical items usable by illusionist class characters are enumerated below:
-all potions not restricted to fighters only
-illusionist scrolls and magic-user scrolls which contain spells usable by illusionists
-all rings
-rod of cancellation, staff of striking, and wands of enemy detection, fear, illusion, magic detection, metal & mineral detection, secret door & trap detection, wonder
-miscellaneous magic items usable by every class of characters, crystal balls (but not with any added powers), all robes (excluding robe of the arch-rnagi), and books and similar written works readable by magic-users
-artifacts which are not proscribed items with respect to illusionists (such as armor, swords, axes, etc.)
-magic daggers

There's a lot that's wrong with this, but to show you how stupid it is, and the easily-seen conflicts it creates, let's concentrate on the RSW (rod/staff/wand) provision- specifically, just the wands. I am going to list the wands that an illusionist can use, followed by the classes allowed to use that wand in the DMG-
enemy detection (any)
fear (C,M)
illusion (M)
magic detection (any)
metal & mineral detection (any)
secret door & trap detection (any)
wonder (any)


Following are a list of additional wands that are in the DMG that, supposedly, ANY CLASS CAN USE-
Wand of Illumination
Wand of Magic Missiles
Wand of Negation

Lets' be clear- the illusionist class has a specified list of magic items- it says that the items they can use "are enumerated." And it's not an accident, because it includes five (5) wands that can be used by any class. But it also specifically and conspicuously omits three wands- that's right, Olaf the Drunk Fighter can use a Wand of Magic Missiles, but the illusionist can't. The monk (THE MONK) can use a wand of illumination, but the illusionist can't. And Nervous Pervis the Assassin can use the Wand of Negation but the illusionist? Nope.

An enumerated list of items ... versus items that say that anyone can use them. What do you think about that? Which should control?


3. Conclusion

I am putting in these two examples (there are so so so many others ....) because they illustrate a point. Rules do not exist in a vacuum. As we add rules, as the different rules interact with each other, and as the rules get released and played by all sorts of different tables ... it is natural that there will be disputes and disagreements about the interpretations of these rules. No game has the prolixity of a legal code, and if it did, we wouldn't want to play it. Moreover, the more complexity that is added to explain things and handles different situations, the more likely there is to be an unintended rules conflict.

Instead, it's often best to view rules analysis through two lens. First is what I call "the good-faith analysis of the RAW." In other words, try and determine, to the best of your ability, what the rule actually is. So above, I've gone through the steps and tried to explain what the framework and the rule is.

For resurrection, my best good faith analysis is that there is a soul/spirit divide, and elves cannot be resurrected or raised. Ever. Except that the powerful Rod of Resurrection can do so, for reasons. And magic. And Gygax. And there is no satisfying way to reconciled it other than to say, "It is what it is."
For illusionists my best good faith analysis is that ... the illusionist is screwed. The language in the PHB is restrictive, Gygax was being a jerk, and the inclusion of most (but not all) of the "any" wands was a choice, not an error.

The second step, once I've understood (for myself) the actual rule ... is to try and decide if I want to play using that rule, or to modify/remove the rule after I've understood it.
 

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Very cool, and thorough, analysis of these examples. I've not played AD&D so I've no first hand experience. But it does seem from the outside that they could have used an editing pass or three to make it to modern standards.

It reminds me of what happens when a rules light game designed to be played for just a few sessions becomes a long campaign, with a lot of house rules accumulated as the game goes on. These are often snap decisions and it can be hard to make them mesh with previous context. Which is perhaps what Gygax was doing?
 

If you haven't read the first post in the series, How To Read Rules, I recommend doing so. It lays out what I think is pretty basic, clear, and easy-to-understand rule from B/X, and explains how to interpret that rule. But most rules arguments aren't about easy-to-understand rules. Unless you are Derek. NO, DEREK, I DON'T NEED TO HEAR YOUR DIATRIBE ABOUT WHY FIGHTERS IN 5e REALLY GET d12 HIT POINTS AGAIN, DEPENDING ON THE DEFINITION OF "HIT" AND "POINTS!"

Instead, it can be because rules are complicated, written poorly, or don't play well with other rules. And, in some cases .... there are no obvious or correct answers because the rules themselves conflict with other rules, in whole or in part. So today, I am going to provide some examples of rules from the past that still leave a lot of people scratching their heads, and why there is no simple answer to them.

Note the first- this doesn't include flat-out mistakes, like when AD&D originally used the wrong tables (as thieves) for monks (as clerics) that were later corrected. There are flat-out conflicts. Why? GYGAX!!!!!!!

Note the second- I am using examples from older editions because, with time, passions fade. As we have all learned because no one cares to argue about 4e anymore. Right?

So, let's go through some examples and analysis!

1. Soulless, dead-eyed elves stay dead. OR DO THEY?

If there's one thing we all know, it's that the only thing more satisfying than a dead elf is two dead bards. But if there is another thing we all know, it's that there is a great puzzle at the heart of AD&D. Specifically- what do you do with a dead elf? I mean, other than celebrate? Let's start with the basic fact- Gygax liked to bury some important rules, so a lot of people who played back then weren't even aware of this very important rule- ELVES COULD NOT BE BROUGHT BACK FROM THE DEAD. That's right. You couldn't resurrect them. You don't bring 'em back, they don't pass go, they don't collect 200 electrum pieces. So, why was this rules obscure? Two reasons-
1. The rule, like the elves, sucked. I mean ... it was classic Gygaxian "balancing." "Sure, Ima make Elves get all these cool bonuses and abilities, in exchange for NEVER BEING ABLE TO GET RESURRECTED IN A SUPER DEADLY GAME! Muahahahahahaha. How you like dem Gygax apples?" And the one thing we know is that rules that suck get applied ... inconsistently. See also, level caps on demi-humans.
2. The rule was genuinely obscure. Here is the text of the resurrection spell in 1e-
Explanation/Description: The cleric employing this spell is able to restore life and complete strength to the person he/she bestows the resurrection upon. The person can have been dead up to 10 years cumulative per level of the cleric casting the spell, i.e. a 19th level cleric can resurrect the bones of a person dead up to 190 years. See raise dead for limitations on what persons can be raised. The reverse, destruction, causes the victim of the spell to be instantly dead and turned to dust. Destruction requires a touch, either in combat or otherwise. The material components of the spell are the cleric's religious symbol and holy/unholy water. Employment of this spell makes it impossible for the cleric to cast further spells or engage in combat until he or she has had one day of bed rest for each level of experience of the person brought back to life or destroyed.

It says nothing about elves! Oh, but wait. "See raise dead for limitations on what persons can be raised." Huh. Do signals mean anything in AD&D? Um, yeah. So let's look at the relevant portion of Raise Dead to see the "limitation on what persons can be raised."

"When the cleric casts a raise dead spell, he or she can restore life to a dwarf, gnome, half-elf, halfling, or human." Oh. It gives a list and it omits elves. There has to be Latin for that (there is). So that is why the rule is so hidden. If you went to resurrection, you'd have to see the cross-reference to raise dead buried in it, then go look at raise dead, and then notice that elves are specifically omitted from the list of critters you can resurrect. This also answers questions like, "Why is there a separate reincarnation spell, and why does that spell specify that 'Any sort of player character can be reincarnated{?}" So the rule is somewhat difficult to tease out,



3. Conclusion

I am putting in these two examples (there are so so so many others ....) because they illustrate a point. Rules do not exist in a vacuum. As we add rules, as the different rules interact with each other, and as the rules get released and played by all sorts of different tables ... it is natural that there will be disputes and disagreements about the interpretations of these rules. No game has the prolixity of a legal code, and if it did, we wouldn't want to play it. Moreover, the more complexity that is added to explain things and handles different situations, the more likely there is to be an unintended rules conflict.

Instead, it's often best to view rules analysis through two lens. First is what I call "the good-faith analysis of the RAW." In other words, try and determine, to the best of your ability, what the rule actually is. So above, I've gone through the steps and tried to explain what the framework and the rule is.

For resurrection, my best good faith analysis is that there is a soul/spirit divide, and elves cannot be resurrected or raised. Ever. Except that the powerful Rod of Resurrection can do so, for reasons. And magic. And Gygax. And there is no satisfying way to reconciled it other than to say, "It is what it is."
For illusionists my best good faith analysis is that ... the illusionist is screwed. The language in the PHB is restrictive, Gygax was being a jerk, and the inclusion of most (but not all) of the "any" wands was a choice, not an error.

The second step, once I've understood (for myself) the actual rule ... is to try and decide if I want to play using that rule, or to modify/remove the rule after I've understood it.
I add a third step and try and see if the rule has any downstream effect. Sometimes a rule in a vacuum is lousy, but sometimes in the greater system context it’s a devil you have to live with. Hopefully, it’s a rare exception to just having good rules but if it’s common I usually punt on using the system altogether.
 

I knew elves couldn’t be Raised/Resurrected, and I even remembered the Soul v. Spirit thing. I vaguely assume it’s related to Trance instead of Sleep, and immunity to the Sleep spell. (Mattress Depot probably avoids having stores in elvish tree towns.)

Illusionists really only came up as NPC enemies in the AD&D campaigns I played or ran. The Big Boss in the first adventure I wrote was an Illusionist. The folkloric/mythological need for a Wizard of Oz type charlatan was supported by this class.

But I never noticed noncasters can use Wands! Wand of Magic Missile usable by Fighters seems a bit like an in an MU in a can, just as a jar of Keoghtom’s Ointment can replace a cleric for emergencies. Useful in a high mortality game.

As for Bards … the original Prestige class … I saw every class in AD&D 1e PHB be used as someone’s PC, except Illusionist and Bard.
 

I really enjoy seeing this:
No game has the prolixity of a legal code, and if it did, we wouldn't want to play it.
Often in rules argument threads I see tirades about how the game has a single unambiguous 'RAW' ruleset if you just look (and argue) hard enough. Moreso, if it doesn't, well then the designers have done something "Wrong™®©" and should feel bad and lose credibility and so on. Nailing something down unambiguously has a tendency to make it absolutely nightmarish to read. Developers often choose to concern themselves with the people who aren't going to be splitting hairs fractally over the whole thing*, and make something they would actually enjoy reading and playing. *They tend to be the audience slightly more able-to-be-pleased, after all.
Moreover, the more complexity that is added to explain things and handles different situations, the more likely there is to be an unintended rules conflict.

Instead, it's often best to view rules analysis through two lens. First is what I call "the good-faith analysis of the RAW." In other words, try and determine, to the best of your ability, what the rule actually is. So above, I've gone through the steps and tried to explain what the framework and the rule is.
These too.
Very cool, and thorough, analysis of these examples. I've not played AD&D so I've no first hand experience. But it does seem from the outside that they could have used an editing pass or three to make it to modern standards.
People argue back and forth whether Gary's 'High Gygaxian' writing style adds or subtracts from the game, but editing is one thing I think there's closest to universal agreement could have benefited all of TSR-era writing.
It reminds me of what happens when a rules light game designed to be played for just a few sessions becomes a long campaign, with a lot of house rules accumulated as the game goes on. These are often snap decisions and it can be hard to make them mesh with previous context. Which is perhaps what Gygax was doing?
It's hard to say. It seems that those who were there agree that oD&D was incredibly well playtested and the rules ambiguities exist because of communication issues (lack of editing, rush to print, etc.). For AD&D, there's some notion that parts of it were written with no or at least a lot less playtesting -- or even that Gary and crew didn't use said rules (they just wanted there to be a solid body of rules since AD&D was going to be the tournament rules version).
 

< tangental ramblings >

Elves and spirits: I have occasionally wondered if is an unexcised artifact from before the D&D/AD&D schism.

If elves were meant to be loosely associated with the elemental/inner planes instead of the outer planes, and raise dead targets the outer planes...

The spirit/soul divide could also partially explain the BECMI elf's immunity to undead paralysis* (you ain't got a soul to suck, 'cause yer a spirit...) instead of sleep/charm.

< /tangental ramblings >


--
*AD&D 2nd Ed. too. Thank-you "I just don't feel like myself today" Farrow. (Uncaged: Faces of Sigil)
 
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For illusionists my best good faith analysis is that ... the illusionist is screwed. The language in the PHB is restrictive, Gygax was being a jerk, and the inclusion of most (but not all) of the "any" wands was a choice, not an error.
As usual, your posts are insightful and a pleasure to read. That said, I'm not convinced of this.

The PHB came out a bit more than a year before the DMG did, so there's a non-zero chance that those three wands were moved into the "any" category after the PHB went to print.
 


I think from 2e on elves could not be raised but resurrected. But the cost for a raise was harsh and you had to roll a percentile dice to see if it worked and permanently lost a point of con if i remember right. I cannot recall if ressurection also had these limitations.
 

It reminds me of what happens when a rules light game designed to be played for just a few sessions becomes a long campaign, with a lot of house rules accumulated as the game goes on. These are often snap decisions and it can be hard to make them mesh with previous context. Which is perhaps what Gygax was doing?

Well, I've posted a lot on rules lite (and FKR), and I've always thought that it works best for one shots and shorter sessions, and works less well for longer campaigns.

That said, I think the process was slightly different with Gygax. Maybe it's worth a full essay someday, but as brief as I can be (not very) I would argue this-
1. Arneson was much more of a rulings-based adjudicator, but Gygax was able to codify the rules, giving us the LBBs.

2. That said, Gygax was fundamentally a wargamer by his nature-his approach was to always think that a problem could be solved with an additional subsystem or a new table. SO MANY TABLES.

3. As the game grew, more and more subsystems were added for various features. And these subsystems didn't ... play well with each other. Any given one might seem like a good idea in isolation (how about percentile strength for really strong fighters?), but made less sense as the game evolved (abilities go from 3 to 25, except strength which goes from 3 - 18/00, and then 19-25).

4. Further, Gygax and TSR then had a profit motive to publish more... in TSR products and in Dragon Magazine (which was a TSR publication). And people wanted more cool stuff! So they would add more cool stuff. Things like ... how often a Ranger could be surprised (less than others) ... again, without thinking about how all the additions fit together.

5. Finally, there was the additional problem that no one actually played by the RAW. And when it came to play testing ... GYGAX DIDN'T PLAY BY THE RULES HE WROTE. That's right- it's not just a question of a lack of playtesting, because no one was actually playing with all the rules "on," and that was just understood.
 

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