What are some good monk hybrids for a Kara Tur kung fu game?
- Thread starter JPL
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nogray
Adventurer
Monk Hybrids
If you are looking at ability scores, there is some match-up that can be done. Monks do seem to lose a lot by the default hybrid rules, though. You might consider a free house-ruled hybrid talent or two from the monk list if you want to preserve their flavor. I do consider it very difficult to build and play a hybrid that doesn't keep the main attack stats for the two classes pretty close to maximized, so that colors my preferences.
The dexterity primary of the monk is only shared by other strikers (and the essential hunter ranger, for which no hybrid option exists), so that is going to limit you, in my mind, to keeping the dexterity up for the monk and using the secondary stat of the monk's tradition to match with the primary stat of the other class. It's a bonus if the secondary stat of the other class is dexterity.
Defender: I think there is a fighter option that favors strength and dexterity, making it a great match for the stone fist monk. Other strength defenders would work pretty well here, too, but with loss of off-stat benefits. The constitution-using battlemind would also be a good match for an iron soul monk, but the off-stat of the battlemind would suffer, and I think you'd be house-ruling the iron soul hybrid option.
Controller: Centered breath monks align perfectly with bow-using seekers and predator druids (though use of the predator options requires hybrid talent). For a one-stat match-up, you could use the centered breath monk paired with an invoker or throwing-style seeker, but your off-stat on the other class would suffer.
Leader: There are a couple that use wisdom (cleric, sentinel druid, shaman) or strength (warlord), but none to my knowledge that use dexterity in any fashion, so some off-stat for the leader would suffer.
I hope that's at least somewhat useful, given my perspective on ability-score limits for "playable" hybrids.
If you are looking at ability scores, there is some match-up that can be done. Monks do seem to lose a lot by the default hybrid rules, though. You might consider a free house-ruled hybrid talent or two from the monk list if you want to preserve their flavor. I do consider it very difficult to build and play a hybrid that doesn't keep the main attack stats for the two classes pretty close to maximized, so that colors my preferences.
The dexterity primary of the monk is only shared by other strikers (and the essential hunter ranger, for which no hybrid option exists), so that is going to limit you, in my mind, to keeping the dexterity up for the monk and using the secondary stat of the monk's tradition to match with the primary stat of the other class. It's a bonus if the secondary stat of the other class is dexterity.
Defender: I think there is a fighter option that favors strength and dexterity, making it a great match for the stone fist monk. Other strength defenders would work pretty well here, too, but with loss of off-stat benefits. The constitution-using battlemind would also be a good match for an iron soul monk, but the off-stat of the battlemind would suffer, and I think you'd be house-ruling the iron soul hybrid option.
Controller: Centered breath monks align perfectly with bow-using seekers and predator druids (though use of the predator options requires hybrid talent). For a one-stat match-up, you could use the centered breath monk paired with an invoker or throwing-style seeker, but your off-stat on the other class would suffer.
Leader: There are a couple that use wisdom (cleric, sentinel druid, shaman) or strength (warlord), but none to my knowledge that use dexterity in any fashion, so some off-stat for the leader would suffer.
I hope that's at least somewhat useful, given my perspective on ability-score limits for "playable" hybrids.
Herobizkit
Adventurer
I realize that this does not fit your criteria, but I would think a Con-based Monk//Warlock hybrid (with Eldritch Bolt) would be just about what you'd expect for a "Mystic" Monk.
Otherwise... maybe Runepriest? Their buffs tends to be pretty fantastic.
Otherwise... maybe Runepriest? Their buffs tends to be pretty fantastic.
Ok, the first thing to look at re monk hybrids is what you lose and what you can get back:
Basically, the only thing you -keep- is the access to monk powers (good!) and your choice of flurry. What you lose is unarmed combatant (losable; most monks don't fight unarmed anyway), extra path features (annoying, but dealable with), and unarmored combattant (which is very signfiicant; you've only got cloth prof and you've lost your option to make cloth + a feat be equivalent to hide + light shield).
This means that:
1. You want to usually be attacking with monk powers. Otherwise, the only thing you're getting out of being a monk is the movement powers (which are cool, and do provide -some- benefit to, say, a fighter/monk). So your best multiclass options are usually going to be classes that can do their thing without using up your standard action -- leaders, non-fighter defenders.
2. If you intend to be in melee, you're going to probably be spending your hybrid talent to wear better armor. Otherwise, you're a melee-er in cloth armor without a bonus = not good.
So that said:
Defender:
Paladin, Warden. Maybe Battlemind. (hmm. a Henkyokai Warden would be nicely flavorful--Crab, maybe, or Badger?)
Leader: (All leaders are fine. Some are better than others)
Runepriest (mediocre healing, but decent buff; note that you don't care about rune states), Sentinel Druid (pretty fantastic; gain a pet, a heal, and steal a druid controller at will for when you can't hit wit ha monk burst or blast power), Cleric, Shaman, and Ardent all seem quite viable. Sentinel Druid seems particularly fantastic.
Controller:
Controllers, like hybrid monks, mostly do stuff when they use their standard action. This is a problem for you; the other side of this, however, is that the controller package is pretty powerful independant of class features (at will ranged powers with a burst, it turns out, are really good). So it's not actually that bad a trade for a controller to lose class features for the mobility of a monk at will power. I'd avoid Int-based controllers (because you want to be able to use Dex for the cases where monk damage is better than the range/power of a controller attack), and Seekers are still terrible, so Druid or Invoker. Druid can be a Sentinel (but not if the party Leader is a Sentinel, as fun as multiple pets can be) or Wild druid and still pack a burst attack. Either way, the pattern is to take a Monk power that lets you get out of harm's way (Fallen Needle is notable, as it's a minor action shift or extra move, and the attack is strong against a single target; also good are Crane's Wings (to jump to a secure location), 5 Storms for the double shift, or Lion's Den for the +1 to defenses whenever you use your move action to shift.
Basically, the only thing you -keep- is the access to monk powers (good!) and your choice of flurry. What you lose is unarmed combatant (losable; most monks don't fight unarmed anyway), extra path features (annoying, but dealable with), and unarmored combattant (which is very signfiicant; you've only got cloth prof and you've lost your option to make cloth + a feat be equivalent to hide + light shield).
This means that:
1. You want to usually be attacking with monk powers. Otherwise, the only thing you're getting out of being a monk is the movement powers (which are cool, and do provide -some- benefit to, say, a fighter/monk). So your best multiclass options are usually going to be classes that can do their thing without using up your standard action -- leaders, non-fighter defenders.
2. If you intend to be in melee, you're going to probably be spending your hybrid talent to wear better armor. Otherwise, you're a melee-er in cloth armor without a bonus = not good.
So that said:
Defender:
Paladin, Warden. Maybe Battlemind. (hmm. a Henkyokai Warden would be nicely flavorful--Crab, maybe, or Badger?)
Leader: (All leaders are fine. Some are better than others)
Runepriest (mediocre healing, but decent buff; note that you don't care about rune states), Sentinel Druid (pretty fantastic; gain a pet, a heal, and steal a druid controller at will for when you can't hit wit ha monk burst or blast power), Cleric, Shaman, and Ardent all seem quite viable. Sentinel Druid seems particularly fantastic.
Controller:
Controllers, like hybrid monks, mostly do stuff when they use their standard action. This is a problem for you; the other side of this, however, is that the controller package is pretty powerful independant of class features (at will ranged powers with a burst, it turns out, are really good). So it's not actually that bad a trade for a controller to lose class features for the mobility of a monk at will power. I'd avoid Int-based controllers (because you want to be able to use Dex for the cases where monk damage is better than the range/power of a controller attack), and Seekers are still terrible, so Druid or Invoker. Druid can be a Sentinel (but not if the party Leader is a Sentinel, as fun as multiple pets can be) or Wild druid and still pack a burst attack. Either way, the pattern is to take a Monk power that lets you get out of harm's way (Fallen Needle is notable, as it's a minor action shift or extra move, and the attack is strong against a single target; also good are Crane's Wings (to jump to a secure location), 5 Storms for the double shift, or Lion's Den for the +1 to defenses whenever you use your move action to shift.
Okay, let's assume that your character is human (so you start play with two feats) and that you begin play with a dexterity of 18 (including +2 from your racial bonus). That would let you raise your secondary ability score (strength, constitution, or wisdom, depending on your build) to 16. For your first two feats, select Unarmored Agility and Hybrid Talent/Unarmored Combatant -- that gives you an AC of 18 at 1st level, so you are not too squishy.
As a defender, hybriding with warden should be considered, as it is the only option that gives you defender level hit points. You can also mark one opponent each turn without attacking that opponent with a warden power. Steer away from warden powers with riders based on secondary ability scores that you probably won't have bonuses in.
As a leader, many options will work. On the leader side, try to focus on "lazy" powers (powers that grant attacks) and/or healing powers that grant heals on an "Effect" line rather than a "Hit" line. An interesting option to try is taking a wisdom of 16, hybriding with cleric, and multiclassing into shaman -- once you have the Mending Spirit feat, you will have two enc0unter heals just from class features.
For controllers, the druid and invoker are probably your best choices. Combine either of these classes with the Centered Breath flurry, and you have almost a full controller.
In most cases, you will want to favor monk powers over powers from your other class since you will usually be more accurate with the monk attacks.
As a defender, hybriding with warden should be considered, as it is the only option that gives you defender level hit points. You can also mark one opponent each turn without attacking that opponent with a warden power. Steer away from warden powers with riders based on secondary ability scores that you probably won't have bonuses in.
As a leader, many options will work. On the leader side, try to focus on "lazy" powers (powers that grant attacks) and/or healing powers that grant heals on an "Effect" line rather than a "Hit" line. An interesting option to try is taking a wisdom of 16, hybriding with cleric, and multiclassing into shaman -- once you have the Mending Spirit feat, you will have two enc0unter heals just from class features.
For controllers, the druid and invoker are probably your best choices. Combine either of these classes with the Centered Breath flurry, and you have almost a full controller.
In most cases, you will want to favor monk powers over powers from your other class since you will usually be more accurate with the monk attacks.
Thanks for all the good suggestions.
I'm liking the monk/warden combo from a thematic standpoint --- the "Form of . . ." daily powers all read like nature-based martial arts techniques.
For the controller, monk/invoker might hit that holy warrior sweet spot. It's a tougher build to make work, but a monk/psion would sure be cool . . .
No leaders with Dex as a primary or secondary ability? Hmm. A Sun Tsu - quoting monk/warlord with a Str/Wis build would work . . . I think there are just enough Wisdom-secondary and "lazy warlord" powers to go around.
I'm liking the monk/warden combo from a thematic standpoint --- the "Form of . . ." daily powers all read like nature-based martial arts techniques.
For the controller, monk/invoker might hit that holy warrior sweet spot. It's a tougher build to make work, but a monk/psion would sure be cool . . .
No leaders with Dex as a primary or secondary ability? Hmm. A Sun Tsu - quoting monk/warlord with a Str/Wis build would work . . . I think there are just enough Wisdom-secondary and "lazy warlord" powers to go around.
RangerWickett
Legend
I kinda love the idea of an all hybrid party that shares one class. I'd want to do:
Monk-Seeker.
Monk-Fighter.
Monk-Warlord (archer).
Monk-Invoker.
I really like full discipline movement modes, and adding them to an existing class with ranged powers would be fun, I think.
Monk-Seeker.
Monk-Fighter.
Monk-Warlord (archer).
Monk-Invoker.
I really like full discipline movement modes, and adding them to an existing class with ranged powers would be fun, I think.
