What do you think about LitRPGs?

[definiteFreakyFishGuy]

To my mind, the LitRPG format helps in very specific circumstances, as it evokes a similar feeling of tangible progress that you get in games, having a clear delineation for when a goal is accomplished and a reward obtained. That said, it generally only works if you identify with the protagonist fairly well, and even then the presentation of the mechanics needs to be handled in a way that doesn't ruin immersion.

That makes a lot of sense, and I can see why so much of the "LitRPG" that I have come across fall into the wish-fulfillment type stories.

100% agree that the presentation of the mechanics matter a lot.

 

[Xenolith234]

I much prefer progression fantasy like the Cradle series.

 

[the Jester]

My exposure is limited, but I have so far found it very underwhelming.

Dungeon Crawler Carl, which I have seen and heard talked up so much it's ridiculous, was... really not all that, in my opinion. I read the first book, found it a slog, and have no interest in continuing the series.

 

[definiteFreakyFishGuy]

Portal fantasies of various kinds - especially in East Asian media - are very popular these days, aren't they? I generally use the Japanese term isekai ("different world") to refer to these, however inaccurately.

I quite liked the insight I saw on social media recently about the cultural differences between Japanese, Korean, and Chinese isekai media, which can be summarised as follows:

• Japanese isekai are more likely to start with a protagonist who feels useless in the modern world (is a NEET, ignored by family, worked to death by a black company, etc.) who then dies and is reincarnated in a world where they feel valued and where they can relax. So the main fantasy here is about getting away from your awful meaningless life in modern Japan and starting anew somewhere with possibilities.
• Korean isekai are more likely to be about surviving and levelling up in in your new reality, proving yourself by sheer hard work and repetition to get powerful. So the fantasy here is about hard work actually paying off (unlike in modern Korea) and gaining rewards from that.
• Chinese isekai are more likely to be about being overlooked and disrespected initially (whether in modern China or in the new world, usually both) and then gaining power and respect through your exploits, especially in terms of gaining helpful social relationships. So the fantasy here is about gaining the respect and notice of powerful people.

Thank you for this very insightful break down. I can't speak for Chinese Isekai since I have not seen any (do you recommend any?), but based on what I have seen of some Korean and a crap load of Japanese Isekai, that seems pretty spot on.

I do want to draw a distinction between "Isekai" and "fiction with game mechanics." I wouldn't call Solo Leveling isekai, for example.

I don't think there's necessarily a 100% fit here - all three types are likely to influence each other and therefore produce a mixture of fantasies - but it's not a bad model.

LitRPG, as far as I can tell, mainly refers to non-Asian media that is influenced by isekai media, and often has specific game conceits, especially the ever-present status window. I think it's workable with but I do sometimes wonder, given all the other fantasy elements in the setting, why that part is necessary. Dungeon Crawler Carl would be totally fine if Carl couldn't see his status window.

I definitely think there are clever ways authors can use game mechanics to either drive fiction or create interesting moments, or have the characters use game mechanics in a clever or interesting way that makes the story interesting.

Some examples:

• The Exiled Reincarnated Heavy Knight Is Unrivaled In Game Knowledge was the first (and only) manga that brought tears to my eyes with the phrase "You've gained XP" (by implying death of a character)
• Solo Leveling has a scene where a character turns the tides of what seems like a hopeless fight by leveling up at the right moment (and thus getting to full health)
• There is a scene in Weakest Wizard Adventures Again to Pay off his Debt (Rough translation) where the main character has to choose between using his remaining spell slot to save a companion's life or attack something.
• Isekai Uncle uses inventory to defeat a near unbeatable creature.

I also think that when the rules used and enforced in a consistent way, it can convey dangers / stakes in a way that is otherwise difficult to do. For example, a level 20 character facing a level 90 NPC (DBZ played with this in the Saiyan / Freeza Saga). You know what it means if your character is down to 1 HP. Or if your character only has 1 spell slot left (see example above).

So there is definitely potential. But it's more done poorly than not. And because the characters typically just get more and more stronger, at some point the numbers start to matter less and less.

 

[FrozenNorth]

The principal reason I have trouble getting into LitRPG is that references to game mechanics breaks immersion for me. More than that, game mechanics highlight what is unrealistic compared to our world, compared to the RPG world.

While a LitRPG doesn’t have to be a power fantasy, isekai have also poisoned that particular well for me.

 

[Marc Radle]

I like the idea of Joel Rosenburg's series about some D&D players taking the place of their characters quite well back in the 80 …

Oh man, I read those books back in the day and really enjoyed them!

 

[Desdichado]

Oh man, I read those books back in the day and really enjoyed them!

I've been thinking about ordering the first three as an omnibus from Thriftbooks or something, just because it's been decades since I've read them.

Of course, I really don't need to buy more books until I read a few more of the ones sitting on my shelf or in boxes, so I haven't pulled the trigger yet...

I also really wonder if I'd enjoy them now. I was a teenager when I read the first one, now I'm a grandfather.

 

[TwoSix]

I've loved it ever since I was first exposed to it about 5 or so years ago, but the bulk of my fantasy inspirations have always been anime and video games. But when I really like it is when it's a fun mechanical gravy on top of an already compelling concept.

There are definiitely works in the genre where talking about the numbers and powers is like 80% of the text, which is way too much. I prefer options like The Wandering Inn, where leveling and classes is only a small portion of the larger story.

 

[Mannahnin]

I've been thinking about ordering the first three as an omnibus from Thriftbooks or something, just because it's been decades since I've read them.

Of course, I really don't need to buy more books until I read a few more of the ones sitting on my shelf or in boxes, so I haven't pulled the trigger yet...

I also really wonder if I'd enjoy them now. I was a teenager when I read the first one, now I'm a grandfather.

Those first three are still pretty solid. I first read them as a teenager as well, but have re-read them a few times. The later ones I don't find as good.

 

[Reynard]

I've been thinking about ordering the first three as an omnibus from Thriftbooks or something, just because it's been decades since I've read them.

Of course, I really don't need to buy more books until I read a few more of the ones sitting on my shelf or in boxes, so I haven't pulled the trigger yet...

I also really wonder if I'd enjoy them now. I was a teenager when I read the first one, now I'm a grandfather.

Any folks interested in reading or re-reading The Guardians of the Flame should be ware that it has some pretty gross stuff in it, especially around sexual assault and slavery. That doesn't make it bad, but you probably want to know.