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Message: <blockquote data-quote="an_idol_mind" data-source="post: 3928404" data-attributes="member: 43749">I still do that. The only difference between my games now and the games I ran when I first got into D&D is that my games now are a bit more coherent in terms of logic and characterization.This is either one of those Internet "truths" that exist because a lot of people have said it, or my groups are very different from the norm. I've run 3rd edition since it came out (switched over to 3.5 about a year or two ago), and my average group has maybe 1 or 2 people at the most that have read through the Player's Handbook, let alone other books. Most of them just know to roll high on a d20, and expect me to fill them in on the rest.This is a perpetual complaint that has come out of every single edition of D&D. I don't think that it's actually increased in 3rd edition, despite the perception. I remember the same stuff being said when 2nd edition was out, and I'm sure people griped about it before then, too. The oD&D manual "Gods, Demi-gods, and Heroes" even has a foreward railing against the proliferation of rules lawyers/monty haul gamers that existed in the 70s.I think scaling back the number of rulebooks used helps a lot. In 2nd edition, I used the Player's Option series in conjunction with the Complete Handbooks and wound up burning out. I eventually scaled back to just the three core books (using the "Build Your Own Classes" section from the DM's Guide to flesh out concepts that didn't fit into the core classes), and ran a good fun game for close to a year. I think part of the reason that I haven't experienced a lot of the rules burn out that some complain about in 3rd edition (besides having good players) is the fact that I haven't bothered with the splat books.Another thing to consider could be going back to an older edition of the game, so long as your group is willing to give it a shot. oD&D, B/X, AD&D, and BECMI each have their warts (as does 3.x), but are all great games. Maybe one of them suits your preferences better. Or, if you prefer some of the innovations of the d20 system, there's always Basic Fantasy Role-Playing, Castles & Crusades, or True20, among others. There are many great games out there, many of which have more focus on storytelling than the current edition of D&D.On the other hand, if your problem stems more from a prevalent player attitude than an individual system, then you might have a harder time getting what you want. Some players seem to make it their life's goal to "win" the game, which can be quite irritating.</blockquote>

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