What I want to Monster Builder to do

[Stadiumite]

I'd like to be able to do the following, and the tool does not yet support it.

Start a new monster. Choose a race and class (yes, class). Choose a level. Have the tool generate appropriate Abilities, HP, AC, Speed, init etc. Have the tool apply the appropriate adjustments for race, including the racial power automatically. Have the tool give me some guidance on what sort of powers and traits to add, and how many of them to add. Let me choose traits and powers from a database which includes all the powers that characters can have. This is sort of a melding of the monster creation rules and the NPC creation rules. Less detailed than a character would be. Just enough detail to run in combat if you need to.

Inevitably someone will respond by pointing out that 4E has seperated character mechanics from monster mechanics. Yes, the mechanics are now different. But conceptually, if I can make an Eladrin cleric as a character, I might also encounter an eladrin cleric on an adventure. And I might have to fight it. And it will likely have powers that I know clerics often have. As a DM, I'd like help in putting together groups of these things quickly. If I want to put together a party of Drow for my game, I can find most of the roles in the monster builder list, and adjust them to be level appropriate. But there are gaps. To fill in those gaps, and to add variety, I'd like to tool to help me. Of course, I can do that on my own but it takes a long time. If I want to do these things in larger numbers, I need a tool to help me. I hope that's the direction they're going in. The 3rd edition DMG had some great aids for doing that sort of thing. In theory, this should be easier to do in 4th edition.​

I've read ENWorld from time to time, but this is my first post. I don't quite know my way around yet. Yesterday, I thought I saw a folder with multiple threads about the Monster Builder. Couldn't find my way back to it today. Can someone help me there.

 

[Riastlin]

Are you looking for a full suite of class based powers (i.e. as if the monster were a PC)? Or just how to make say an Ogre Shaman?

If the former, a lot of the monsters can be used as the race choice in CB. If the latter, I believe the DMG has rules for applying a class template to a monster (which gives it fewer powers than a PC of the same level and class would have but which isn't necessarily bad either).

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I'm not sure what to say that is helpful because there's just not an MB 'template' function at this point. You can create a 'basic eladrin' (probably whatever the lowest level generic one is will work, I forget what it's called). Then just modify that monster for all eladrin. Likewise you could make a basic cleric or whatever and depending on which is more important you could start an eladrin cleric as either cleric or eladrin.

Honestly what MB needs is the ability to design and apply themes and templates to monsters. Those things exist in the books, they have just never been implemented in MB and who knows when or if they ever will be.

 

[Stadiumite]

Are you looking for a full suite of class based powers (i.e. as if the monster were a PC)? Or just how to make say an Ogre Shaman?

If the former, a lot of the monsters can be used as the race choice in CB. If the latter, I believe the DMG has rules for applying a class template to a monster (which gives it fewer powers than a PC of the same level and class would have but which isn't necessarily bad either).

I could just use the character builder, you're right. But its overkill for things I just want to use as monsters.

Automation of the DMG rules for class templates is really what I'm looking for. Part of those rules (page 182) is choosing powers. At present the tool only allows me to steal powers off of other monsters. Not every power is there, and they're hard to find.

I've tried to re-create some powers as new ones, and the tool doesn't support it very well. For example, some powers do half-damage on a miss. The power dialogue in the MB has a "miss" tab. But you can't chose "half-damage" on it.

 

[KidSnide]

I think a template engine for the monster builder would be super-helpful. But - to be honest - I'd just like to see a library of monster powers that included the PC powers.

It's very easy to take an existing monster and modify it for a given campaign, but it's quite annoying when you need to copy and paste powers in from the compendium (one line at a time) to give your monsters class abilities.

-KS

 

[I'm A Banana]

I'm guessing they've got templating somewhere in the mix for future updates. Which is gonna be neat. But they just now got the math working right (I believe?), so give 'em some time.

 

[DEFCON 1]

As it stands currently... as a practical answer you have two choices.

1) You build monsters by hand, rather than use the Monster Builder.

Build the 'monster with class abilities' as a PC in the Character Builder, then once you're done you can then 'write out' the monster's stats you're created in stat block form (thus not needing to have the large character sheets.)

You'd probably want to remove several of the powers chosen as well (depending on the level of monster NPC you made) as having more than one or two Encounter powers and one or two Daily powers just makes the monster unwieldy.

2) You build the monster with the Monster Builder, searching and selecting powers that are 'close enough' to the class powers you were looking to represent.

If you search the MB for the particular race you wanted to use, there's usually a few represented with one or more of the PC racial abilities it has (for example if you search the MB for all 'eladrin', most will include Fey Step in its monster stat block.) Then it's just a matter of selecting one that is close to level and role appropriate, Copy and Edit it to make a new version, then doing a search for some of the most iconic powers from the particular class you want to emulate and dragging them over to the new monster (and deleting some powers from the original monster that don't apply.)

So for instance, for your eladrin cleric you mentioned... search for 'eladrin' under both the search term and the Keyword then select the Mithrendain Guard Captain, a level 5 Soldier (Leader) and Copy/Edit. Do a search for Lance of Faith as a power (which the Compendium says can be found on 3 monsters, one of which is Armos Kamroth, a 5th level controller) and drag that across and drop it on your Guard Captain. Maybe add Command (which the 5th level monster 'Ofeen Nole, Cleric of Pelor' has as a power) and Healing Word (from either Kamroth or Nole) and voila, you have a monster with just enough eladrin and just enough cleric to suit your needs. And the Guard Captain has a few additional powers already that you can either just keep to help flesh them out, or delete entirely. And if you decided to keep them, you could easily rename them if you wanted the powers to be more cleric power sounding.

***

Both of these methods are not perfect and are not as quick as just searching the Monster Builder and taking the first thing that appears... but look at it this way: It will take just about as long as it would have to create the applicable monster from scratch when you DIDN'T have the Monster Builder available to use. We've become an impatient species nowadays... but sometimes it's good to remind ourselves how we used to do things and realize that speed shouls not be an expectation all the time.

 

[S'mon]

I would definitely appreciate a MB function where you picked "Eladrin" and it gave you Eladrin traits, then you picked "Cleric" and it gave some default Cleric powers of appropriate levels.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I would definitely appreciate a MB function where you picked "Eladrin" and it gave you Eladrin traits, then you picked "Cleric" and it gave some default Cleric powers of appropriate levels.

So basically an MB that can do the 'monster mash' eh? That would be a pretty OK way to handle templates. Allow one monsters powers to be overlaid on another monster. Then you can make some generic template monsters.

 

[Stadiumite]

As it stands currently... as a practical answer you have two choices.

..
2) You build the monster with the Monster Builder, searching and selecting powers that are 'close enough' to the class powers you were looking to represent.
..

Thanks for pointing out that you can search by power. Very helpful.

I had good luck building a Dragonborn Paladin that I needed. I started with a Dragonborn soldier. Made it Elite. Dropped all its powers and stole powers from a Human paladin already in the list. Seemed to work well.

I did search by power for particular paladin powers that I wanted. I came up empty on most of them. Its a hit and miss thing which ones have been implemented in existing monsters.