what to give a Non Psionic Soulknife?

Ace

Adventurer
I am at a bit of a conundrum -- I want to use the Soul Knife in my campaign but I am not using any Psionics -- I am seeing the class lightly modified as a Eldritch Blade type of thing

Unfortunately a good chunk of a Soul Knife's power comes from acess to Psionic feats -- what do I give the class to make up for the loss
 

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Jdvn1

Hanging in there. Better than the alternative.
First I'd change the flavor of the class so that their blades come from the ehtereal plane.

As far as making up for the lack of psionic feats... not sure. Allow them to take fighter-only feats? Give them some of the psionic feats as bonus feats (but flavor them differently)?
 

Mavnn

First Post
Up BAB and/or Hit dice?

Or just allow the Psy Feats as a class perk, with a different flavour text (much like the blade itself).
 

Nifft

Penguin Herder
Make 'em Aberrations, and let 'em take [Aberration] feats. The blade isn't a glowey shiny pretty thing, it's a JAGGED BONE SOAKED IN ICHOR!!!

"Yessssss it hurtsss when I exsssstend my clawssss... but it hurtssss them oh ssssssso much more... *disgusting chuckle*"

-- N
 

Jdvn1

Hanging in there. Better than the alternative.
Nifft said:
Make 'em Aberrations, and let 'em take [Aberration] feats. The blade isn't a glowey shiny pretty thing, it's a JAGGED BONE SOAKED IN ICHOR!!!

"Yessssss it hurtsss when I exsssstend my clawssss... but it hurtssss them oh ssssssso much more... *disgusting chuckle*"

-- N
:lol: So... much... silly... ;)
 


GreatLemur

Explorer
Nifft said:
Make 'em Aberrations, and let 'em take [Aberration] feats. The blade isn't a glowey shiny pretty thing, it's a JAGGED BONE SOAKED IN ICHOR!!!

"Yessssss it hurtsss when I exsssstend my clawssss... but it hurtssss them oh ssssssso much more... *disgusting chuckle*"
You joke, but that actually makes me think. The Soulknife Class really could be reworked into some very interesting things without threatening balance. I love the idea of classes that represent progressive physical metamorphoses. Normally, d20 leaves that sort of thing to prestige classes, but I don't see any reason to hold to that tradition.
 

Jdvn1

Hanging in there. Better than the alternative.
Ace
My recommendation... if a player wants to try it out, tell him that you'll try something and continually change the class in order to try to make it balanced. Then, get back to us with your findings. :D
 

Nyeshet

First Post
A divine version, for your consideration:

I created a divine version of the soulknife (the soulblade) on the WotC boards for a posting DM wanting a non-psionic version for a player in his campaign. He ended up altering what I created quite a bit to better fit his campaign, but here is my original creation / take on a divine (rather than psionic) soulknife: (the balance check considerations follow)


Soulblade (SLB)

HD: d8
BAB: High
Saves: Refl, Will
Prof: All Simple Weapons, their Soul weapon, Light Armor, Shields
Skill Points: 4 + Int
Class Skills: Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).

Specials
01 Soulblade, Weapon Focus (Soul Weapon)
02 Throw Soul Weapon
03 Turn Undead
04 +1 Soul Weapon
05 Free draw, Shape Soul Weapon
06 Soul Weapon Enhancement +1
07 Bonus Feat
08 +2 Soul Weapon
09 Divine Wind, Greater Weapon Focus (Soul Weapon)
10 Soul Weapon Enhancement +2
11 Bonus Feat
12 +3 Soul Weapon
13 Aligned Strike
14 Soul Weapon Enhancement +3
15 Bonus Feat
16 +4 Soul Weapon
17 Multiple Throw
18 Soul Weapon Enhancement +4
19 Bonus Feat
20 +5 Soul Weapon

Class Features

Soulblade (Su): As a move action, a Soulblade can create a semisolid weapon composed of magic energy channeled from his own soul. The soul weapon is identical in all ways (except visually) to a short sword of a size appropriate for its wielder. For instance, a Medium Soulblade materializes a Medium soul weapon that he can wield as a light weapon, and it deals 1d6 points of damage (crit 19-20/x2). Soulblades who are smaller or larger than Medium create soul weapons identical (in stats) to short swords appropriate for their size, with a corresponding change to the weapon’s damage. The wielder of a soul weapon gains the usual benefits to his attack roll and damage roll from a high Strength bonus.

The soul weapon can be broken (it has hardness 10 and 10 hit points); however, a Soulblade can simply create another on his next move action. The moment he relinquishes his grip on his soul weapon, it dissipates (unless he intends to throw it; see below). A soul weapon is considered a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

A Soulblade can use feats such as Power Attack or Combat Expertise in conjunction with the soul weapon just as if it were a normal weapon. He can also choose soul weapon for feats requiring a specific weapon choice, such as Weapon Specialization. Spells that upgrade weapons can be used on a soul weapon.

A Soulblade’s soul weapon improves as the character gains higher levels. At 4th level and every four levels thereafter, the Soulblade gains a cumulative +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls (+2 at 8th level, +3 at 12th level, +4 at 16th level, and +5 at 20th level).

Even in places where magical effects do not normally function (such as within an antimagic field), a Soulblade can attempt to sustain his soul weapon by making a DC 20 Will save. On a successful save, the Soulblade maintains his soul weapon for a number of rounds equal to his class level before he needs to check again. On an unsuccessful attempt, the soul weapon vanishes. As a move action on his turn, the Soulblade can attempt a new Will save to rematerialize his soul weapon while he remains within the magic negating effect.

Weapon Focus (soul weapon): A Soulblade gains Weapon Focus (soul weapon) as a bonus feat.

Throw Soul Weapon (Ex): A Soulblade of 2nd level or higher can throw his soul weapon as a ranged weapon with a range increment of 30 feet.

Whether or not the attack hits, a thrown soul weapon then dissipates. A Soulblade can use their soul weapon in conjunction with other special abilities (such as Strike to the Soul; see below).

Turn Undead (Su): At 3rd level the Soulblade learns to channel their spiritual energies in a more potent yet diffuse manner. They can Turn Undead as a cleric two levels lower than their level as a Soulblade three times per day. With this ability they also gain access to turning feats. Note that evil Soulblades Rebuke Undead rather than Turn them.

Free Draw (Su): At 5th level, a Soulblade becomes able to materialize his soul weapon as a free action instead of a move action. He can make only one attempt to materialize the soul weapon per round, however.

Shape Soul Weapon (Su): At 5th level, a Soulblade gains the ability to change the form of his soul weapon. As a fullround action, he can change his soul weapon to replicate a longsword (damage 1d8 for a Medium weapon wielded as a one-handed weapon) or a bastard sword (damage 1d10 for a Medium weapon, but he must wield it as a two-handed weapon unless he knows the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword) feat). If a Soulblade shapes his soul weapon into the form of a bastard sword and wields it two-handed, he adds 1-1/2 times his Strength bonus to his damage rolls, just like when using any other two-handed weapon.

Alternatively, a Soulblade can split his soul weapon into two short swords, suitable for fighting with a weapon in each hand. (The normal penalties for fighting with two weapons apply.) However, both soul weapons have an enhancement bonus 1 lower than the Soulblade would otherwise create with a single soul weapon.

Soul Weapon Enhancement (Su): At 6th level, a Soulblade gains the ability to enhance his Soulblade. He can add any one of the weapon special abilities on the table below that has an enhancement bonus value of +1.

At every four levels beyond 6th (10th, 14th, and 18th), the value of the enhancement a Soulblade can add to his weapon improves to +2, +3, and +4, respectively. A Soulblade can choose any combination of weapon special abilities that does not exceed the total allowed by the Soulblade’s level.

The weapon ability or abilities remain the same every time the Soulblade materializes his soul weapon (unless he decides to reassign its abilities; see below). The ability or abilities apply to any form the soul weapon takes, including the use of the shape soul weapon or divine wind class abilities.

A Soulblade can reassign the ability or abilities he has added to his soul weapon. To do so, he must first spend 8 hours in meditation. After that period, the soul weapon materializes with the new ability or abilities selected by the Soulblade.

+1 Bane, Corrosive, Defending, Distance, Flaming, Frost, Ghost Touch, Keen, Ki Focus, Merciful, *Adaptive strike*, Mighty cleaving, Seeking, Shock, Sundering, Thundering, Vicious.
+2 Anarchic, Axiomatic, Corrosive Burst, Disruption, Flaming Burst, Holy, Icy Burst, Shocking Burst, Unholy, Wounding. (not available until level 10)
+3 Speed. (not available until level 14)
+4 Brilliant. (not available until level 18)
+5 Vorpal. (not available until level 22)
*Adaptive strike* is a new weapon enhancement created specificially for soul weapons. It allows a soul weapon to bypass DR based upon a single non-epic material (ie: materials less epic than adamantium). Whenever this special is chosen a single DR type material must be chosen, afterwhich the soul weapon counts as that material for the purpose of bypassing DR. It does not become that material, or take on any properties associated with that material other than the ability to bypass DR based upon that material. Bypassing multiple material based DRs simultaneously require multiple uses of this special.

It is intended that the DM par this list down (perhaps by as much as half) to those properties best suiting the nature of the patron deity. A deity of fire, for instance would not have frost and is unlikely to have thundering. A good deity will not have unholy. A deity of peace is unlikely to have vorpal, wounding, or vicious. A chaotic deity is unlikely to offer Ki Strike +1. And so forth.

Bonus Feat: At 7th level and every fourth level thereafter the Soulblade gains increased skill in using either his soul weapon. He may choose a bonus fighter feat at each of these levels.

Divine Wind (Su): At 9th level, a Soulblade gains the ability to momentarily fragment his soul weapon into numerous soul weapons, each of which strikes at a nearby opponent.

As a full attack, when wielding his soul weapon, a Soulblade can give up his regular attacks and instead fragment his soul weapon to make one melee attack at his full base attack bonus against each opponent within reach. Each fragment functions identically to the Soulblade’s regular soul weapon.

When using Divine Wind, a Soulblade forfeits any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats or abilities (such as the Cleave feat or the haste spell). The soul weapon immediately reverts to its previous form after the Divine Wind attack.

Note that the fragments may appear idenitical to the normal soul weapon or different, as the Soulblade chooses. Also, the fragments may be identical to each other or not, again as the Soulblade wishes at the moment of fragmentation.

Greater Weapon Focus (Soul Weapon): A Soulblade gains Greater Weapon Focus (soul weapon) as a bonus feat at 9th level.

Aligned Strike (Su): Once the Soulblade has reached 13th level his soul weapon is considered aligned with the Soulblade's alignment for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

Multiple Throw (Ex): At 17th level and higher, a Soulblade can throw a number of soul weapons per round equal to the number of melee attacks he could make.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The DM I created this for felt it was balanced, but he still made many changes to it to make it better fit his campaign. Myself? I think it is roughly balanced, but without a little playtesting it is impossible to really be sure. It really depends on what type of enemies you will be facing. The ability to turn undead - more or less in exchange for psionic feats (as it opens the door for turning feats) is mostly an issue if facing undead. The replacement of increased damage with fighter bonus feats at levels 7, 11, 15, and 19 depend greatly on the feats chosen for the determination of balance.

Overall I think it works out. This was my initial balance check:

Removed:

Skills:
- Autohypnosis
- Concentration
- Knowledge (psionics)

Specials:
- Wild Talent (loss of access to all psychic feats)
- five levels of Psychic Strike (+5d6)
- Speed of Thought (increased speed)
- Knife to the Soul (a potent mental ability damaging attack)

Added:

Skills:
+ Intimidate
+ Knowledge (religion)
+ Survival
+ Swim

Specials:
+ Turn Undead (as a Pal equiv) (gain access to turning feats)
+ four bonus feats (fighter)
+ Aligned Strike
+ High BAB (rather than medium)

Renamed everything to seem more divine/spiritual rather than psychic.

As already stated above I think this balances out okay, but I'll state again that - if built right - this might perhaps be a little too strong if in a campaign where facing undead or evil outsiders is common. Of course, the same could be said of clerics, paladins, and rangers - and they also get casting, which this does not. What do you think? Will this work for you?

Additional Notes: I made a point of using 'soul weapon' rather than soulblade (1) to prevent confusion as to when I spoke of the weapon vs the class name, and (2) to emphasis a point often overlooked in the soulknife class: the created weapon may have any form, however nebulous or colorful. It could always look like a katana - even as it did shortsword damage. It could look like a whip, a quarterstaff, a kukri, a mist around the fist, floating randomly moving shards of ice, anything at all. The damage and reach will not change, but its appearance can be nearly anything imagined.

Also, I used Divine Wind rather than Bladewind to better distinguish between the psionic and divine versions of the class. And the Divine Wind (kamikaze) happened to come to mind when I tried to think of a new name for the ability. It even matches the concept - somewhat.
 
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Staffan

Legend
Nyeshet said:
A Soulblade can reassign the ability or abilities he has added to his soul weapon. To do so, he must first spend 8 hours in meditation. After that period, the soul weapon materializes with the new ability or abilities selected by the Soulblade.

+1 Bane, Corrosive, Defending, Distance, Flaming, Frost, Ghost Touch, Keen, Ki Focus, Merciful, *Metalic Sheen*, Mighty cleaving, Seeking, Shock, Sundering, Thundering, Vicious.
+2 Anarchic, Axiomatic, Corrosive Burst, Disruption, Flaming Burst, Holy, Icy Burst, Shocking Burst, Unholy, Wounding.
+3 Speed.
+4 Brilliant.
+5 Vorpal. (not available until level 22)
I'd be pretty hesitant about some of these, notably Bane. The thing that balances Bane is that you're paying a lot of money for an ability that will only work in like 10% of cases (unless you're in a campaign that's focused on fighting certain types of opponents). If you can change your Bane type every day, it becomes a lot more powerful.

Psionic weapon abilities that are not available to soulknives: (+1): Dissipater, Power Storing; (+2) Psibane; (+5) Coup de Grace, as well as those abilities that have straight gp costs. Dissipater is sort of like Disruption (except it's anti-ectoplasm instead of anti-undead), Psibane is sort of like the psionic version of Holy etc., and Coup de Grace is sort of like Vorpal. So I would remove Bane, the Alignment abilities, Vorpal, and possibly Disruption from your list, and be a bit hesitant about Speed as well. In addition, I'm a bit hesitant about the "material-sheen" ability. Even if you can buy that an item formed by spiritual force should have the properties of a material, that material should definitely not be cold iron - the whole point of cold iron is that it's intensely anti-magical (note that you can create adamantine with Major creation, but not cold iron).
 

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