When playing a class-based fantasy RPG, are classes diegetic for you?

[aramis erak]

Dragon content wasn't intended to be "official" until-unless it appeared in an official book or other release, was it? Most of it seemed to be various people throwing out trial balloons specifically as optional, to see if they caught on or not. NPC classes were one such trial balloon.

They finally became proper splat material in AD&D 2e... but a bunch were in evergreen products, namely Best of Dragon I-V, well before.

 

[The-Magic-Sword]

I really love diegetic classes, to my mind, its best to resolve mechanical/fictional separation by looking for additional fiction that reconciles them.

 

[Greg K]

Dragon content wasn't intended to be "official" until-unless it appeared in an official book or other release, was it? Most of it seemed to be various people throwing out trial balloons specifically as optional, to see if they caught on or not. NPC classes were one such trial balloon.

That was true for 1e and 2e. However, during 3e, there was a period when Dragon Material was considered official as it was being written by in-house designers. The magazine covers started saying the Official Dungeons and Dragons Magazine and at least as far back with 305 started saying 100% official content on the cover after Paizo took over publishing. I don't know if the 100% content label remained through the entire Paizo run, but, at least, for a while, content was considered official.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That was true for 1e and 2e. However, during 3e, there was a period when Dragon Material was considered official as it was being written by in-house designers. The magazine covers started saying the Official Dungeons and Dragons Magazine and at least as far back with 305 started saying 100% official content on the cover after Paizo took over publishing. I don't know if the 100% content label remained through the entire Paizo run, but, at least, for a while, content was considered official.

Of course, unless you were in organized play or at a con, there's no good reason IMO to care about "official".

 

[billd91]

That was true for 1e and 2e. However, during 3e, there was a period when Dragon Material was considered official as it was being written by in-house designers. The magazine covers started saying the Official Dungeons and Dragons Magazine and at least as far back with 305 started saying 100% official content on the cover after Paizo took over publishing. I don't know if the 100% content label remained through the entire Paizo run, but, at least, for a while, content was considered official.

I'm a bit less convinced that the material was official because it was written by in-house designers - I'd be surprised if no freelancers at all got published. But the 3e era was also the era of the OGL and the 100% official label would indicate the magazine wasn't simply a licensed 3rd party product - it was from the game's real publisher.

 

[Lanefan]

Of course, unless you were in organized play or at a con, there's no good reason IMO to care about "official".

In this context there is, as the discussion that started this tangent was around when NPC classes first appeared and someone said they started in very early-era Dragon. My question was whether that would have been considered official at the time; it seems not, meaning those NPC classes were at best optional suggestions.

 

[Thomas Shey]

In this context there is, as the discussion that started this tangent was around when NPC classes first appeared and someone said they started in very early-era Dragon. My question was whether that would have been considered official at the time; it seems not, meaning those NPC classes were at best optional suggestions.

And recall I was talking specifically about OD&D, so even knowing it was in Dragon doesn't tell me much; the question is whether it was aimed at that, BX or AD&D. If it was 1977 or later, chances are one of the latter.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

And recall I was talking specifically about OD&D, so even knowing it was in Dragon doesn't tell me much; the question is whether it was aimed at that, BX or AD&D. If it was 1977 or later, chances are one of the latter.

The Alchemist first appeared in issue #2 (Aug ‘76). Issue #3 brought the Healer, the Berserker, the Scribe, the Jester, and the Idiot (a joke class).

 

[Thomas Shey]

The Alchemist first appeared in issue #2 (Aug ‘76). Issue #3 brought the Healer, the Berserker, the Scribe, the Jester, and the Idiot (a joke class).

Okay, I remember those now.

But as noted, the fact it was in Dragon didn't mean it was in wide use the way an in-book element would You'd see scribes or sages fairly frequently, but they were just ad-hoc souces of information, same as most craftsmen.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

Okay, I remember those now.

But as noted, the fact it was in Dragon didn't mean it was in wide use the way an in-book element would You'd see scribes or sages fairly frequently, but they were just ad-hoc souces of information, same as most craftsmen.

To be fair, the only “in-book” elements published at this stage were in the LBB/LWB. Holmes and the MM didn’t hit the shelves until 1977. Everything was pretty ad hoc at this point.