Where do magic items come from?

[interwyrm]

Every game I have played in, people assume that if they go into a big enough city, they should be able to buy anything.

I was looking at the tables in the DMG for creating cities... the highest level wizard/sorcerer that will appear in a metropolis (by random generation) is 16.

This means that you will never be able to buy 9th level scrolls or items that require a caster level of 17 or above.

Also... why would anyone ever build a ring of three wishes or a tome of ability score, and not immediately use it afterwards.

How do item crafters get the experience to craft their goods? Are they all adventurers?

 

[WayneLigon]

The people making that assumption are wrong.

Some reasons for not using such a one-use item at once: the item is a gift or tribute, it was meant to be saved for later in case there was a real need for it, the tome can be sold to a warrior for a tremendous about of cash whereas an extra point of strength won't do the tower-bound mage any real good.

The crafters have wise GM's who give them XP for non-killing-things Roleplay. Or, for the real answer, those things cost XP to keep the PC crafters from destroying the campaign because most players can't be trusted to recognize the need for restraint, staying in character, or respecting a genre.

 

[Turanil]

Where do magic items come from?

They normally come from the ogre's den or the dragon's hoard. Ask the ogre and he is to dumb to know the answer; ask the dragon and he will try to eat you first. But in the end the truth is always the same: magical items generally come from the dawn of times and the depths of the unknown...

 

[Quasqueton]

Well, when a mommy magic item and a daddy magic item love each other very much...

Quasqueton

 

[Thunt]

Also, spell casters get old and die, but magic items (except for one shots) last forever. Items from loooooong ago pile up and create this seemingly unbalanced ratio of items-wizards.

Plus, D&D worlds always seemed to have been ruled by Gods or unspeakably powerful beings many centuries ago (which might rise up to reclaim their world if ***insert adventure here*** isn't completed before ***insert stars/planets here*** are lined up just right). These beings undoubtedly created a buncha crap too.

 

[Psion]

How do item crafters get the experience to craft their goods? Are they all adventurers?

The DMG experience system is for adventurers. Period. You try to make it apply to anything else, things start to fall apart. Proceed at your own risk.

(Yes, I've read SKR's lectures on commoner XP. It's an interesting analysis, but it still pounding a square peg into a round hole, and still doesn't produce the demographics in the DMG.)

THAT SAID

My personal take is that most NPCs use power components almost exclusively.

 

[Psion]

Well, when a mommy magic item and a daddy magic item love each other very much...

Oy. You are reminding me of THAT thread...

 

[DreadPirateMurphy]

Green Ronin's Advanced GM Guide gives some rules for learning experience points from training. That provides for another alternative to killing wee beasties for experience. IIRC, it uses a CR-based system, which would work for a lot of experience avenues, e.g., learning from working in a profession for a year.

Eberron's Artificer is another alternative. The class gives you points that you can use instead of XP to create magic items. Unearthed Arcana (from WotC, not Monte Cook's setting) also had a similar concept called craft points.

As for why a spellcaster would create items to sell -- well, they sell for more than they cost to make. If I have to make money to keep my tower staffed, my spell research going, and my personal magic item creation going, then selling lesser magic items is a viable approach. If I have apprentices, then they can earn XP from my training, some of which they use to create potions and scrolls to pay for their apprenticeship! Most campaigns don't have an AFL/CIO...

 

[Insight]

At the threat of expanding this topic beyond its intended purpose...

The prices are there in the DMG. Thus, players think that is essentially a menu from which they can simply select items for sale. The assumption is there that since it's published, anything goes. The same holds true for prestige classes, feats, and spells, by the way.

This assumption essentially ruins the DM's control over the power level of the game. As a DM, you have to put your foot down and rule in terms of what is available and what is not. Player characters have a lot of gold burning a hole in their bag of holding, and are itching to spend it on something, so why not a cool new magic item? As the DM, if you want to have any control at all over the power level in the game, you need to make a decision in each case whether a given magic item is available, at what price (it need not be the 'base' price), and where it can be found.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Every game I have played in, people assume that if they go into a big enough city, they should be able to buy anything.

First misconception. The DMG gives limits to the most expensive item that will be available. I haven't dug around it lately but I think many of the big items are not on it.

I was looking at the tables in the DMG for creating cities... the highest level wizard/sorcerer that will appear in a metropolis (by random generation) is 16. This means that you will never be able to buy 9th level scrolls or items that require a caster level of 17 or above.

It's a fallacy that everything for sale has to be made locally. Temples at major cities may have a handful of powerful items provided by the most greatest priests in case of dire emergency. Where do the powerful priests live? Well, I guess it depends on their enemies. It could be a demiplane that is reached via Gate.

Same goes for archmages and super-druids. They tend to keep an abnormally low profile to minimize the odds of an enemy incinerating their allies. Mobility is the greatest defense. (Think Gandalf wandering around doing fireworks shows)

Also... why would anyone ever build a ring of three wishes or a tome of ability score, and not immediately use it afterwards.

Legacy ("I'm an old mage unlikely to gain enough XP to get the life extending Epic feat..."), contingencies ("Crap, I can't cast anymore Wishes since it would drop me a level!"), and special events ("Becoming a lich will give me much power but my death will disrupt the magicks that augment my body...").

How do item crafters get the experience to craft their goods? Are they all adventurers?

A classic question. "How do NPCs earn XP? And how fast?" NPCs earn XP same way everyone else does; overcoming challenges. They tend to be more social or political than physical. However 3.x isn't about killing, it's about overcoming adversity. Beating a local politician at his own game is a challenge worthy of XP.

How fast? Up to you. I generally give out ~4 levels/age category so that venerable NPCs will have double-digit levels. Some give out more, some less. My rule of thumb is that crafters can spend level x 10 XP/year on magic items without impinging on their advancement. It's not a whole lot (10th level caster = 100xp/year = 2500gp items) but does account for many things.

You may also want to look at the Eberron Artificer. I'm told it has interesting rules for crafters but I haven't examined it yet.