whirling rend and like powers

[tgwg]

does it have 2 different damage rolls or just one?

and if so does your enhancement bonus and/or weapon focus apply to both?

I looked up the rulings in player's handbook but there's no precise answer.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Yeah, there's no precise answer. This question has come up a LOT on the WotC Q&A forum too. Nobody there has a precise answer either.

It boils down to what constitutes 'using' a weapon in an attack. Its pretty clear with the main weapon attacks, but some of the power secondary attacks, like the at-will one where you damage a different target with a different weapon is really not clear at all. Are you using that weapon? What happens if you rolled a crit for the attack? etc.

I think the consensus is to treat it exactly as if you'd hit that secondary target with the off-hand weapon. At least it gives you something to work off of. Maybe we'll get an FAQ entry on it eventually, who knows...

 

[tgwg]

perhaps this table might help

[4e] On new "Two-Weapon Fighting" Powers - Giant in the Playground Forums

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I think the exact reason to word these powers like this are static modifiers not boosting damage into the skies.

 

[Blackbrrd]

When it says 1[w]+str to primary and 1[w] to secondary target I would add the enhancement bonus once to the primary and once to the secondary target.

When it says 1[w] main hand + 1[w] off hand +str I would only add the enhancement bonus of the primary weapon and the properties of both weapons.

 

[tgwg]

yes, but if you follow that ruling then the tempest barbarian quickly surpasses the two weapon ranger in shear damage output. at least with their at wills.

 

[Blackbrrd]

It's harder to hit twice with whirling rend than it is with twin shot. I figure they come out about even. Remember you have to have a secondary target within range to hit. Twin shot has a 100% higher chance to crit as well since it's two attack rolls.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

For Whirling Rend at least, it's clearly two separate damage rolls, because the main and off-hand weapons could have different damage dice, e.g. main hand = bastard sword and off-hand = short sword.

Beyond that one easily answered question, the whole Whirling Barbarian build is one big whirling ball of uncertainty. The WotC folks have learned many valuable lessons about clarity of presentation since the introduction of 4e, but in this case they seem to have misplaced their notes.

 

[Blackbrrd]

For Whirling Rend at least, it's clearly two separate damage rolls, because the main and off-hand weapons could have different damage dice, e.g. main hand = bastard sword and off-hand = short sword.

Actually I don't agree with your reasoning, because whirling frenzy (encounter power) has main hand + off hand damage and it's quite clearly one roll.

Beyond that one easily answered question, the whole Whirling Barbarian build is one big whirling ball of uncertainty. The WotC folks have learned many valuable lessons about clarity of presentation since the introduction of 4e, but in this case they seem to have misplaced their notes.

I agree completely, why make it so unclear and why haven't they made FAQ entry for it yet.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

enhancement bonuses don´t stack... you use the higher one... and feat bonuses don´t stack, you use he higher one... untyped bonuses from the same source don´t stack... so usually it is pretty clear how to do it...