Why do NPCs join cults?

[Incenjucar]

A cult is a community, which is extremely attractive to most people - even a loner likes to be able to recognize someone with a shared interest. Cults usually offer a desired goal, which can be as simple as establishing that the community is extra special. The specifics can be complex, especially if the cult gains public power and is now required to get a good job etc. These lead to loyalty, which can become strong enough to override self-preservation, especially when magic is provably real.

Cults also offer ritual, which can provide immense satisfaction, comfort, and regulation, but then add meaning to those rituals, deepening their impact to something more than a morning coffee routine.

 

[Bae'zel]

That would make sense in a world where there is no good like BG3 or WH40K or Diablo, where the supposed paragons are as demonic as the demons and the bad guys are as likely or more likely to be heroic as anything that looks noble or beautiful, but if you allow for the existence of actual good (rather than just "hats") instead of having a grim dark setting that suggests any pretense of good is almost certainly hypocrisy, then I think you have to have something more subtle going on. You have to create a world where not all evil is just victims who are looking for a way out. Not all good is hypocrisy. Not everyone who is oppressed becomes an oppressor. Not everyone who is successful or advantaged is a victimizer. Not everyone's reasons for joining a cult have to be sympathetic or rational. If the terms have any meaning at all, then they have to describe something different from each other, otherwise why bother using them? If a demon or an angel is just a mortal with different forehead bumps, why apply the terms to them?

I mean, a lot of tables I think do make that decision, that the labels aren't meaningful so they won't be used. But I find that a bit of a copout. Even if you don't believe in the ontology of good and evil in the real world, in the fantasy world it's an assumed thing most of the time, so I feel like you ought to engage with that.

And, of course, I do think that there are people who will insist that despite the appearances to the contrary and all the corruption, there is something importantly different in the WH40K universe between the philosophies of Nurgle and the philosophies of the Sons of Vulkan, and that while maybe no one's virtue (especially when taken collectively) is pure that there is virtue. And that is itself interesting as an exploration. Is there still something pure - a diamond in the muck - in a situation as corrupt as WH40K? Can you still find a place to stand where you can legitimately condemn the followers of Nurgle as objectively wrong?

I don't understand your point. Maybe I slept through too many Philosphy classes.

The initial question was: "why would NPCs join a cult" and I gave one answer from some settings. You'd be free to disagree if I said "these are the ONLY reasons why", I just stated SOME reasons why.

There are PLENTY of fantasy settings where angels and deities of pure goodness exist, and yet evil forces (mundane or supernatural) persistently oppress common folk.

I mean, Oppressed become Oppressors is a tragic irony in human storytelling since the dawn of our species for a reason: it's understandable and relatable, even if reviled.

I can't meet you in deeper existential, ethical questions of philosophy. I just though about "why would people willingly join an evil cult of a DISEASE GOD".

But I find that a bit of a copout. Even if you don't believe in the ontology of good and evil in the real world, in the fantasy world it's an assumed thing most of the time, so I feel like you ought to engage with that.

What? haha I don't HAVE to engage with anything.

 

[Celebrim]

I don't understand your point.

First, I agreed with you that your answer was reasonable, and in particular in the case of the settings where the answer came to your attention, it's a very sensible and likely answer.

But I wanted to make it clear that it's not remotely a universal answer. Partly because I think that answer is trite at this point and party because I think that some people do offer it as a universal answer - whether you were doing so or not.

What? haha I don't HAVE to engage with anything.

First, I probably should have used the more formal "one" rather than the informal "you". I didn't mean you specifically, but everyone generally. And secondly, I didn't say you or anyone else has to do anything. I'm not going to make you. I don't think you should be forced. I said you ought to engage with it. There is a difference.

 

[Whisper-Kitten]

Because they serve the best cheese at their parties.

 

[pnewman]

Cults make sure that their people get food; maybe not good food; maybe not quite enough food; maybe not food without drugs to make them more suggestible in it; but FOOD! This is a powerful reason for a poor person to join, especially if they've got kids. Very few D&D worlds have food stamps and unemployment pay. People join these cults for the same reasons that people used to join churches - because the church offered both answers and food, but the food was only for parishioners.

 

[Voranzovin]

If you want cults that make some kind of sense, but your PCs will feel fine slaughtering them anyway:

A. They're evil aristocrats. Its like joining a country club, its prestigious. These people dont really see anyone below their own station in life as real people, and will happily sacrifice them in return for even more wealth and power. Think the Hellfire Club.

B. They're a hate group. They believe that Baphomet or whoever will scour the earth of those people, and they'll be free to build a good, strong nation of whatever kind of people they are free from the influence of undesirables.

C. They're truly alien. Some people have desires that cant be explained, like the desire to be devoured by an unknowable being from beyond the stars. That would be fine if it wasn't going to devour everybody else, too. They cant understand why the rest of the world doesn't want that.

 

[rmcoen]

Lots of really good, real answers here. "feeling of belonging", promises of power/payback, etc.

In my game, non-PC magic is a factor of belief and quantity. A village congregation can sometimes, working together, accomplish a level 1 spell. The Temple in the county capital has a very charismatic leader, and can semi-routinely pull off a 3rd level spell effect when he's got the crowd going. And maybe, if the whole kingdom is holding vigil and praying together, maybe you can get a raise dead at the Grand Cathedral for like the King, or Jacquot Mildroar, most famousest of Royal Bards.

Having set that level of understanding, then, in come the Cults. A mere half-dozen fanatics and a willing patron can pull off 1st level spells, and sometimes the leader or a good prep-ritual can accomplish 2nd level magic. Getting pumped up on a blood ritual so everybody gets a bless or aid spell before heading out to "do Vengeance" is pretty freaking powerful for a CR 1/8 4hp peasant that suddenly hits like a trained guard (+1d4 accuracy) and shrugs off a sword blow (+5 MAX HP)!

 

[ohiknow]

Check out Adam Sandler's "Joining a Cult" on youtube.

 

[Evaniel]

View attachment 435934

I heard this picture.

 

[delericho]

Like a lot of DMs, I find that evil cultists are a pretty good intelligent villain to use in RPGs: "This guy is trying to summon Orcus to destroy your hometown! You are completely justified in stabbing him!"

For most cultists, it's a pretty miserable life, wearing hooded robes and hanging around in sewers and caves, neither of which are great robe-wearing places. Sure, you get access to those neat wavy-bladed daggers, but what's the appeal otherwise?

Without this getting too real world (and therefore very depressing), what's in it for the cultists?

If you want to hold on to that "you're completely justified in stabbing him" line, then it's because they're fanatical believers in whatever the cult is doing.

If you're looking for a realistic justification, it's basically the same reasons people do in the real world: a mix of belief, belonging (and the lack of it in the real world), drugs, coercion, and being sold a lie. The problem is that before long, the cult leaders of today are the next generation from the cult founders of yesterday, so there's a real good chance they're victims themselves (just longer ago, and so moreso). In which case, are you really justified in stabbing him?

Basically, as with many things D&D, it's probably a very good idea not to examine things too closely. Because look too closely and it very quickly can get very uncomfortable.