Why Fantasy?

[Maxperson]

Also, magic is easy "cause i say so" button for world building. Unlike SF, where you need at least some scientifically probable explanation why and how something works, in fantasy, you can handwawe stuff by using magic.

I'm not so sure about this. Scientifically possible is much closer as @Umbran pointed out earlier. However, technobabble is a common term for a reason. Throw in words like "chroniton transducers" and "quantum phase inverters" and you can handwave science "magic" through just fine.

 

[Reynard]

Both fantasy and romance are their own distinctly different genres. Whether the fantasy is front and center and the romance is secondary, or whether the romance is primary and the fantasy is secondary depends on how the creator wants it to be. Neither can be considered to be a subset of the other, even if romance gets the top billing most of the time. The same goes for any pairing of genres. Romance/comedy, comedy/drama, etc.

I personally don't recall more romance movies with fantasy being secondary like Stardust or Princess Bride than I do movies that were fantasy first and romance second like Lord of the Rings, D&D, Narnia. To my recollection most of the time the fantasy movie just happens to have a few characters that are/become romantically involved, but the fantasy portion is still the primary focus of the movie or book. Where are you getting your numbers from?

I think @Fenris-77 was referring to the older literary genre of "Romance" rather than the modern one that is mostly about heaving and throbbing things.

 

[Maxperson]

I think that you need to account for Tolkein and Dunsany if you want to have any significant explanatory power.

Tolkien is heavily influenced by mythology and Dunsany heavily influenced by fairy tales. The older mythology and fairy tales are still the outsized influence going on, not those authors themselves.

 

[Reynard]

Tolkien is heavily influenced by mythology and Dunsany heavily influenced by fairy tales. The older mythology and fairy tales are still the outsized influence going on, not those authors themselves.

If that were true, most TTRPG fantasy elves would look more like fairy tale elves than Tolkien elves, and the opposite is true. Dwarves too.

 

[Maxperson]

If that were true, most TTRPG fantasy elves would look more like fairy tale elves than Tolkien elves, and the opposite is true. Dwarves too.

Tolkien elves are Norse mythological elves, not fairy tale elves and he has had more influence on fantasy PC type elves than the fairy tales. That said, what do you think the fey in D&D are? The sprites, pixies, brownies, boggarts, etc. are fairy tale elves or at least influenced by them.

 

[Parmandur]

Both fantasy and romance are their own distinctly different genres. Whether the fantasy is front and center and the romance is secondary, or whether the romance is primary and the fantasy is secondary depends on how the creator wants it to be. Neither can be considered to be a subset of the other, even if romance gets the top billing most of the time. The same goes for any pairing of genres. Romance/comedy, comedy/drama, etc.

I personally don't recall more romance movies with fantasy being secondary like Stardust or Princess Bride than I do movies that were fantasy first and romance second like Lord of the Rings, D&D, Narnia. To my recollection most of the time the fantasy movie just happens to have a few characters that are/become romantically involved, but the fantasy portion is still the primary focus of the movie or book. Where are you getting your numbers from?

He is reaaching back to an older usage of the word "Romance". A story about a knight errant fighting wizards and monsters 200 years ago would have been called a Romance, and what we call Romance now did evolve out of those Romances. C. S. Lewis in his capacity as a literary critic wrote some very interesting stuff about Thai, and about the historical malleability of genre in general.

 

[Parmandur]

First, you are again muddling the genre to te point of meaningless for the purposes of this discussion. Otherwise there is literally only a single genre in all of TTRPGs.

Genre is a muddy topic, and mostly an artifact of marketing campaigns than literary criticism.

But stories about larger than life heroes with magical powers fighting evil foes to protect society? Superheroes are fantasy, just a specific narrow band.

Second, while that may be true of novels -- i don't know if it is, and I doubt it,but for the sake of argument let's say you are -- novels are the least valuable, ubiquitous and relevant media in our culture (sadly). Even a crappy adaptation of a novel generates far more money and interest than the novel itself.

True, but TTRPGs specifically have a strong relationship with literature. They are niches with major Venn overlap.

Your argument that fantasy dominates TTRPGs because it dominates pop media in general does not hold any water.

I did not say Fantasy dominates, I said Romance and Mystery dominate. Fantasy is the top of the rest.

I think if someone came up with a really good Romance TTRPG that had mass appeal they would threaten D&D's dominance of the field.

 

[zarionofarabel]

I still think it's specific to nerds. I mean, fantasy is far better represented in written media, which is far more of a nerd hobby than one frequented by normies (for lack of better terms, no offense intended). Whereas in TV, the realm of the normies, fantasy is far far less represented, despite the previously mentioned "budget" issues being a thing of the past. My own anecdotal evidence points to fantasy having NEVER been a popular genre outside nerd spaces simply because the only fantasy property I ever got to discuss with my plethora of normie coworkers was Game Of Thrones. My normie coworkers also have very little zeitgeist awareness of fantasy pop culture.

Seriously, it's the swords. Nerds really love swords.

 

[Reynard]

True, but TTRPGs specifically have a strong relationship with literature. They are niches with major Venn overlap.

I don't think this has been true for 20 years.

 

[Maxperson]

I still think it's specific to nerds. I mean, fantasy is far better represented in written media, which is far more of a nerd hobby than one frequented by normies (for lack of better terms, no offense intended). Whereas in TV, the realm of the normies, fantasy is far far less represented, despite the previously mentioned "budget" issues being a thing of the past. My own anecdotal evidence points to fantasy having NEVER been a popular genre outside nerd spaces simply because the only fantasy property I ever got to discuss with my plethora of normie coworkers was Game Of Thrones. My normie coworkers also have very little zeitgeist awareness of fantasy pop culture.

Seriously, it's the swords. Nerds really love swords.

Lord of the Rings is similarly known by normies. When I'm talking to one and they ask about D&D is, they have blank looks until I tell them it's like Lord of the Rings, but the players are playing characters who have various roles, like the Fellowship did. Then the look of understanding comes over their faces.