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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Incenjucar" data-source="post: 5601730" data-attributes="member: 6182">It's funny that you mention the Raven Queen, since she's a mere mortal who took the powers of a full-fledged and extremely powerful god, and who has already managed to make a few races of her own since. If the gods can be devalued by other beings being able to affect them, she's a far greater offender. The Lady appears to have gotten her power from a god as well, but unlike the Raven Queen, she's extremely limited by it. Not to mention that 4E has primordials - which slaughtered gods, but can themselves be slaughtered by PCs. Not to mention the Obyriths. And the Far Realm things.The Lady of Pain's ability to hold proper deities off is like Vecna's ability to obtain secrets. Doors are essentially her portfolio, much to her detriment, and Sigil is her Astral Demesne... or her Domain of Dread.I don't know what you mean about "fragmentation." Planescape UNIFIED every setting in D&D, and Sigil has been known to have Athasians walking around. Zeus and Odin? How much have you read about them? You know that Zeus was once drugged and tied up by the other gods? The king of the gods got roofied. Odin is very much doomed, and had to get some of his powers from outside sources to begin with, like a warlock. They are mighty, but they have many limitations. Indeed, deities usually make mortals BECAUSE of their limitations, and their limitations are much of what make them interesting today - there's a reason that there's so much focus on Sigil being the Lady's "cage."D&D atheism comes in two forms, often accounted for outside of Planescape (Faerun's atheists are screwed, for example). 1) No belief that the gods exist at all. 2) No belief that the gods are actually gods. The former is common where the gods can't touch the mortal world directly, and so cannot prove themselves, and the latter is common where the gods do appear, but then are jerks. This is how many real people would react, so I don't see the issue.Your aesthetic issues with the flavor of Sigil itself... well hey, your tastes are your tastes. Every artist has critics, and not everyone likes thick use of slang and accents - many can't stand "Aye lad" and "Ye be well m'dear" and so forth.Angels and devils associating with one another is hardly unusual. Devils are fallen angels, so they have something in common, and angels work for ANY deific cause, which devils often have a hand in.That you seem to think that Sigil exists because of the Lady of Pain suggests that you haven't read all the lore on it.I would hazard to guess that, while it's absolutely 100% cool for you to prefer D&D your way, your views don't reflect what was actually written in the last three or so editions. It's cool if you don't want Sigil in your game, everyone has their tastes, but if you wish to argue about it I feel it would help if you studied the topic in more depth.</blockquote>

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