Wizard School Specializations

[kayn99]

As a game master I am having some problems with the school specializations. They handle everything well till they get to the opposing schools. In the older additions necromancy was not as powerful as it is now. Some of the other schools were more powerful and things have been taken from them. It seems that they just went with the old stand by and left the way it was. I am not sure if this makes sense any more and would like some opinions on it.

Some examples of what I am talking about is-- Necromancy, if looking at some of the expanded spells lists, has damage spells, effects, creations, spells that heal those creations and bolster them in addition. Should this be considered a weaker school.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Yes, Necromancy is a weaker school because the PHB list is very small. Adding many spells from other sources may upset that balance.

(In fact, from a minmax POV the best bet for a PC is to go Diviner and drop Necromancy IMO.)

If you are going to add many supplementary spells I suggest doing one of the following (or a combination):

(1) Require new spells to be researched. The cost of researching a spell is 1000gp x <spell lvl>. That is very expensive unless you are high level.

(2) Take standard spells (from the PHB) off the list to keep the list comparable in value.

(3) Make a standard spell "unavailable" to that character for every new spell that becomes available. Of course that character can research one of the standard spells, as if it were "new".

 

[kayn99]

Spell research

I find the best way to handle the cost of spell research is the square of the level of the spell x 100 gp per a week. This way low level spells are reasonible and high level spells are much more costly. Come on 9000 gold and 9 weeks and you have a wish, too easy.

The structure of what schools are opposite is a little out dated. I was just wondering if there is a better way of doing it?

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Re: Spell research

I find the best way to handle the cost of spell research is the square of the level of the spell x 100 gp per a week. This way low level spells are reasonible and high level spells are much more costly. Come on 9000 gold and 9 weeks and you have a wish, too easy.

The structure of what schools are opposite is a little out dated. I was just wondering if there is a better way of doing it?

And low level spells are too expensive. I don't think that it is unreasonable for a, say, 2nd level Wiz to want to make his own spells, but the cost is prohibitive.

I think the idea of opposition schools is dead, the chart is just a fossil of an extinct idea. The name of the game is balance now.

 

[Bastoche]

I think exactly the opposite. I think they must have think this through a lot. The schools balance very nicely IMO and every school loss hurts. Making the stantard wizard a good option. I think they changed some spells from schools. And Stinking cloud, for example, is now a third level spell.

 

[kayn99]

I think exactly the opposite. I think they must have think this through a lot. The schools balance very nicely IMO and every school loss hurts. Making the stantard wizard a good option. I think they changed some spells from schools. And Stinking cloud, for example, is now a third level spell.

Just because it is written does not mean it was well thought out, for if it was the next edition to the PHB would not be coming out. I agree that there has to be a lose of school but the problem lies in the opposition schools. They did move some spells around but enchantment is far weaker than necromancy and would be a far better opposition to divining, based on spells and powers. I just hate when some thing exist and changes have not been made to it in a way that makes sense. The last point that you try to make I and not sure I understand, what does stinking cloud being third level have to do with school oppositions.

 

[Hypersmurf]

A couple of other threads on the topic...

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30023 http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30019

-Hyp.

 

[Bastoche]

Just because it is written does not mean it was well thought out, for if it was the next edition to the PHB would not be coming out. I agree that there has to be a lose of school but the problem lies in the opposition schools. They did move some spells around but enchantment is far weaker than necromancy and would be a far better opposition to divining, based on spells and powers. I just hate when some thing exist and changes have not been made to it in a way that makes sense. The last point that you try to make I and not sure I understand, what does stinking cloud being third level have to do with school oppositions.

They changed the spell list for most class except the wizard. They changed spells name, they changed most spells description and effects, they changed some spells from schools and some spells changed level. In other words, they went through all the spells lists all over again. They had to think this through. That is my point. There is so many changes in the spell list they had to think about it.

Second specialized wizards are very well balanced IMO. A wizard's primary role IMO is to build magic items. Most magic items requires spells from various schools. Therefore, a wizard wishing to be a successful magic item builder must be very careful when choosing opposition schools. Losing any school is not an advantage. There is at least one "must have" spell in every schools. Therefore choosing an opposition school is always a sacrifice.

- abjuration: most good protection spells. Stoneskin. Shield, protection from arrows, element resistance, glob of invulnerability, etc [edit: I forgot the allmighty dispel magic!!!]
- conjuration: most indirectly offensive spells + many cool tricks, power words, summon monster and cloudsomething
- evocation: most directly offensive spells + contegency and Otiluke's resiliant sphere.
- enchantement: fighter killer spells. Hold person/monster, suggestion, geas/quest, will save or die.
- illusion: other protection spells and fooling spells. Mirror image, invisibility, greater invisibility, shadow evo/conj, etc.
- divination: scrying and such spells. Many useful role-playing spells like tongues for example
- necromancy: rogue killer spells and to some extend, mage or cleric killer spells. Death spells, etc. Plus cool gizmos like clone and horrid wilthing
- transmutation: buffing an movement spells. Bull's strength, fly, haste, time stop

No weak school. Just some weaker than others due to the number of spells per school. No choice is better than another. Very good balance.

 

[Lord Rasputin]

Necromancers

Well, right now, I am playing a 7th level necromancer in one of my games. A few thoughts ...

* Prohibited school: Enchantment. Obvious for a necromancer, as divination is too useful. My character is a jerk anyways, so I cannot see an in-character reason to take it. Never, ever give up transmutation (duh) or abjuration. Conjuration has mage armor, (though I would think this should be abjuration), can't give that up either.

* Tome and Blood spells change the name of the game for necromancers. Negative energy ray, negative energy wave, negative energy burst and command undead make necromancers more of a kick-butt choice at early levels (though I only have the last one of these right now).

* Biggest gripe: why do clerics have all the great undead spells? Wizards have only animate dead, and gain it 4 levels after a cleric does. Wizards of the Coast, add the other undead summoning/creation spells from the cleric list to the wizard list, and make them 1 spell level higher than the cleric has.

 

[Marshall]

No weak school. Just some weaker than others due to the number of spells per school. No choice is better than another. Very good balance.

Congratulations! You just pointed out why the opposition school system is completely out of whack!!

Why do I give up 2 schools for a Transmuter(with at least one being a "tier 2" school) when I only have to give up one to get the (with the splatbooks)equally powerful Necromancer?

As has been stated before, with the new spell lists from the splats, the "Balance" between the schools has shifted to the point that the PHB-Weak schools are equal to the PHB-Strong schools. Unfortunately, unless 3.5 does something about it, you are still paying 2-3 times as much to specialise in schools that gain you no particular extra benefit.