Wizards of the Coast declines to voluntarily recognize Magic Arena union by May 1st deadline

An election is expected in the coming weeks to recognize the union.
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Wizards of the Coast has not voluntarily recognized a new union being formed by Magic: The Gathering Arena employees. A post on United Wizards of the Coast's webpage states that the company has not voluntarily recognized the union by the May 1st deadline put forth by the union when it announced its attempt to form. Per the post, Wizards has had no contact with union representatives at all, with their only statement about the planned filing being released to media sources instead.

Developers tied to Magic Arena announced last week that they were forming a union, citing a need to protect workers from layoffs, guardrails over generative AI usage and crunch time, and protections for remote work. This union is limited to Magic Arena developers only and does not encompass other areas at Wizards of the Coast.

As Wizards has not chosen to voluntarily recognize the union, the next step would be an election overseen by the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB), in which all qualifying employees can choose to vote on whether or not to form a union. Per the United Wizards of the Coast's page, the group's voluntary recognition letter contained a super-majority of the Arena team, meaning they would have the votes to create the union as long as their membership holds firm. The union organizers state that they expect the election to be held within the coming weeks.
 

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Christian Hoffer

Christian Hoffer

Ah. I now see I misread the post I was responding to. I meant to say that I feel there should be laws to protect workers when the company they work for is being unethical, not protect the workers when the workers are behaving unethical. Sorry for that.
Ooooh okay makes sense, and obviously i agree.
 

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If you don't have proof the worker in question engaged in malfeasance, how do you know they did? Vibes?

It doesn't matter if you know they did or not, that is irrelevant to it being more difficult to discipline them.

If you don't know then it is possible they never engaged in malfeasance and it is possible they did engage in malfeasance. Both cases will exist when amortized across tens of millions of workers and in both cases it is harder to punish them. It will be more difficult to punish those who did engage in malfeasance for what they did do and it will be more difficult to punish those who did not engage in malfeasance for what they didn't do.

As an extreme example let's say as an employer I know someone stole something and I know when it happened, but I have no idea who did it. I can fire everyone on that shift and the person who did it will suffer those consequences. I can pick and choose to fire several people based on my interactions and who I think it most likely was and there is a reasonable non-zero chance the person who did it will suffer the consequences. With union protections that is going to be a lot more difficult, so it will be a lot more likely (near certain probably) that the culprit is not disciplined at all.

It is more difficult to discipline people with union protections and that applies to ALL of them both good actors and bad actors. Your argument for these protections rests on things like due process and what is morally and ethically right. It is a valid argument for getting those protections, but don't try to say those same protections don't provide cover for bad actors. They do!
 
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I think if a worker wants a union job, they should pay union dues.

What if a worker has a job and a union takes over and then demands money from them?

If you want a car, you should pay for the car.

Some other organization like AAA should not be allowed to prevent you from buying the car just because you are not paying them a monthly fee. After all AAA protects all motorists, shouldn't everyone with a car have to pay them for that?

If you don't want a union job, don't try for one and you don't have to pay the dues.

I am not working for the union. I should be allowed to try for any job I want. If the union wants my money let them offer the value proposition such that I want to pay for it.


If the non-union worker wants the union agreements though, they need to join the union and pay union dues.

I am fine with this. I am fine with excluding non-union workers from a CBA. I am fine with not giving them protections or legal benefits or anything else that is part of the deal the union strikes with the employer. I am not fine with them saying they need to be fired or can't work.
 

I am not working for the union. I should be allowed to try for any job I want. If the union wants my money let them offer the value proposition such that I want to pay for it.
That completely defeats the power of collective bargaining, since the employer can always find, or plant, a few workers that toe their line.

It's like a democracy: you might not like the party in power, but if the majority voted for it, you still have to follow the law. If the majority of your fellow workers vote union, and if you want to stay in that job, then you're in the union. You're welcome to continue to advocate against the union, or to leave and find a new job, but what you don't get to do is have separate rules just for you.

Before unions, workers were routinely exploited, often very ruthlessly. Unions have issues - nothing is perfect - but they have made things a lot better for working folks in terms of giving them better job conditions, not to mention power and agency.
 


IMO it should be illegal to force someone to pay union dues. It is great that all the workers are benefitting, but that should not be an excuse to take someone's money out of their pay check against their will. They should not be forced to pay for something they don't want to pay for, whether it benefits them or not.

It should be up to the individual worker if the value proposition the union affords is worth spending the money. In this respect the union needs to "sell" the reason for workers to pay dues and if workers don't want to do that it tells you all you need to know about the value of joining the union from their perspective.
Then go work someplace else. Simple. Don't want to be in our union, leave.
 


It should be noted that the state must also be forced to adopt better worker protections, and stronger unions help that happen. Unions forced the government to adopt overtime, 40 hour workweek, paid vacation, the weekend, worker safety, and employee funded health insurance and retirement.

No pension or regirement fund interferes with federal retirement (ie social security), because labor organized to prevent politicians from making such things law.

In Califorina unions have been weakened but are still strong enough that we have the strongest worker protections in the nation. Joining a union and paying dues helps keep it that way.
 

What if a worker has a job and a union takes over and then demands money from them?

Beyond that almost never happening, you may then be in a prickly situation. In real life, it depends on state laws and your employee contract.

I would defer to your employee contract. Those electing to start the union should not have power to overcome your employee contract. However, if the union determines that there are troublesome workers that detract from the work environment, then you may have problems regardless of what your employment contract says. This is because if you are violating your employee contract then your job can legally fire you.

If the vast majority of your workplace votes to unionize despite your protests, you may be out of sync with them. However, unless your employee contract specifies that you can be fired for not joining the union, or that you must join the union, you probably don't have to join the union in my case. If you are working in a place which just barely was able to pass a union, you probably could be okay, just have everyone stick to their employee contract.

However, you should also be aware that if conditions were popular enough for your fellow workers to unionize, and it was composed of most of the workplace, your fellow workers may hold a grudge and may be upset at you which could create a very hostile workplace for you. Someone who is out of sync with the rest of the workers sometimes, even in non-unionized jobs, is seen as more a liability than beneficial.

That said, check your employee contract. You don't have one? Well...you might want to start worrying about where you are working. At least you know that the state or national laws are by default, part of the contract at that point. That's better than nothing in some places, scarily deficient in others, and downright non-existent in some really bad places to work. If they don't have an employee contract, they may also neglect other areas of concern (such as safety measures, etc).

Some other organization like AAA should not be allowed to prevent you from buying the car just because you are not paying them a monthly fee. After all AAA protects all motorists, shouldn't everyone with a car have to pay them for that?

You are trying to change what we are talking about. we are not talking about preventing you from buying the car, we are simply saying if you don't want a car, you don't buy a car.

No one is preventing you from buying the car. No one is preventing you from getting a Union Job.

However, if you buy a car, you are either going to have to pay the funds to take care of it (the oil changes, transmission changes, fluid checks, tires ever so many thousand miles, etc) or your car is going to break down.

If you buy a car, you will have to pay the money to keep up the car or lose it. It's a natural order of things.

The same with a Union, if you want a Union job, you need to pay the Union dues. Part and parcel of the picture.

If you don't want a Union Job, get a non-union job. You don't have to pay the Union dues then. You may have lower benefits or other expenses that need to be paid (for example, maybe they offer health insurance which if you want it, they will have you pay your part our of the paycheck...that's a US thing).

Which is, if you don't want to buy a car and pay for it's upkeep, maybe you want to buy a motorbike instead. It only has two tires you need to pay for, is normally cheaper, may take less oil and fuel, and is considered less safe by some but could get great mileage.

This is an easy analogy to understand. No one is preventing you from buying either one, but with any vehicle you get you either pay for it's upkeep or it will soon breakdown on you and you won't have a functioning vehicle.

You get a job and pay the dues (whatever they are, for example, many mechanic shops in the US require non-union members to buy their own tools for several thousand dollars, buy their uniforms for a few hundred, etc) regardless of whether it is union or non-union.

Hence, if you want a Union job, pay the Union Due.

If you don't want to pay the Union Dues, get a non-union job.

I am not working for the union. I should be allowed to try for any job I want. If the union wants my money let them offer the value proposition such that I want to pay for it.

I don't think anyone will prevent you from applying for a Union job. I think they should make it clear that it is a Union job though, and if you refuse to be part of the Union, you won't be there very long. You are allowed to try for any job you want.

However, you are trying to sell yourself as a valuable commodity to the company and the other workers who will be part of the team.

Why should they want you to be part of their team. They and the company should be allowed to determine who will be part of the union and the job.

It's a two way street in this case. It's not just up to you.


I am fine with this. I am fine with excluding non-union workers from a CBA. I am fine with not giving them protections or legal benefits or anything else that is part of the deal the union strikes with the employer. I am not fine with them saying they need to be fired or can't work.

No one said you can't work. If you don't want to work a Union Job and pay Union dues, go get a job that isn't a Union job.

The reason many people choose to be part of a Union and strive for Union jobs is because the Unions have normally, in the past, given higher benefits and salaries to those who are a part of those companies than those who are not.

That's the magic of collective bargaining and joining together to be more powerful than an individual trying to go it alone. It's why we say teams are better than a solo person, and a pack is better and more effective than the Lone Wolf.
 

This forum really isn't the place for general political debates on the merits of unions, and the conversation really isn't about WotC any more and hasn't been for pages. I'll close this one down.
 

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