D&D General WotC's Dan Ayoub talks OGL mistakes--"we're recovering from loud public missteps"

"Trust was given to the brand, and people rightly felt the rug was pulled from under them."
Dan-Ayoub.webp

In an interview with Wargamer, Dan Ayoub--head of Dungeons & Dragons at Wizards of the Coast--talked about the trust the company lost when it tried to rescind the Open Gaming License back in 2023. Ayoub took over at WotC in 2025, two years after the crisis, and said of the events "But I don't want to skirt the focus of your question. It was a rug pull, right? A lot of people and businesses were built up around a specific thing. Trust was given to the brand, and people rightly felt the rug was pulled from under them. In some cases, it's caused damage we are still trying to fix today."

He also spoke about D&D's new franchise model, reconnecting with classic D&D creators like Margaret Weis, Tracy Hickman, Bob Salvatore and Luke Gygax, and bringing on new partners. Check out the interview here.
 

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From the article:
D&D is about, for, and by the fans. That's the first fundamental point that we can never lose. I think, over the course of several years, we lost sight of what was important. We lost sight of who our audience was.
Dan has the "what" but I'm not sure he has the "why."

WHY is D&D about, for, and by the fans?

My feeling: Because the very nature of role-playing is essentially "collaborative storytelling" - it's why "railroading" is generally unpopular with players - and each group is a different set of individuals and their collaboration (colored by the randomness of die rolls) will of necessity create a story which WotC does not "own" - the result of an RPG session is "jointly owned" by all of the participants - WotC might own the "rules set" and the story framework for a published mega-campaign, but the details of each group's run through of the campaign will be uniquely their own and the players "jointly own" that experience along with WotC, whether WotC likes it or not.

WHY did WotC over the course of several years [lose] sight of what was important?

My feeling: Pressure from Hasbro to bring in money ("make line go up" if you will).

This is history repeating itself - reminds me of the end of the TSR era, when it was forgotten that ownership of the creative product the game produces is of necessity "shared" with the players and TSR (due to poor financial management) had inordinate pressure to bring in money.

So now the most important question is, "how will WotC/Hasbro avoid making the same mistakes in the future?" When we saw this at the end of TSR, WotC's solution was to embrace the ownership sharing by way of introducing the OGL. When we saw this with the recent OGL scandal, WotC's solution was to embrace the ownership sharing by way of releasing the SRD via the Creative Commons license.

My hope is that WotC - and Hasbro - will realize D&D is a unique intellectual property that cannot be harnessed to drive profit by attempting to exert control over it... because it is the collaborative ownership of a story with each individual that plays the game which drives its appeal, and when you try to take that ownership away from the players (and DMs), you cut off the very reason they are playing the game in the first place. In other words, its very nature is to resist the sort of "enshittification" that drives most corporate decision-making today. It is better for WotC to consider D&D a "public trust" which they are responsible for "curating" than a "product" which they "own" and the D&D arm must be run more like a public benefit corporation than a traditional for-profit corporation.

My sense when Peter Adkinson acquired TSR, that was his approach - he wasn't acquiring D&D for the monetary value it would drive, he was acquiring it because it was a thing he liked and he was willing to have his company curate it for a while. Unfortunately, that attitude of being a "curator/steward" rather than an owner is generally limited to a single (rich) individual and the attitude rarely survives long when $LargeAmount is paid to acquire something. Either the individual tires of the curation duties and converts to "for profit" themselves or tires of the curation duties and resells to another entity for $AnotherLargeAmount and the new owner prefers "owning" to "curating."
 
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I like it. I appreciate the way he admits it was a mistake, and that he goes as far as calling it a "rug pull". This is the kind of attitude I want from the leadership of WotC. It gives me hope for Ayoub's era.

However, I also still have reservations. The biggest being: talk is cheap. You want me to believe you really, truly mean it? Then put actions behind those words.

WotC committed to converting legacy OGL SRDs into Creative Commons in 2024. It was part of their big mea culpa. They have since chosen to completely ignore and renege on that promise. In the short term, they could claim they were focusing on the 2024 release. At the one year mark, they could ostensibly claim it was being worked on or in the planning phase. At the two year mark, it's clear they have simply not chosen to allocate the resources it would require.


When Ayoub can back his words up with a CC release of the 3.0 and 3.5 SRDs, I will believe what he says in this interview. Until then... 🤷‍♂️


TL: DR;

Ayoub: "In some cases, it's caused damage we are still trying to fix today."

May The Fourth Be With You Do It GIF by Star Wars
 
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My hope is that WotC - and Hasbro - will realize D&D is a unique intellectual property that cannot be harnessed to drive profit by attempting to exert control over it...
The issue with hoping this will always be the case is that inevitably new voices will come into Hasbro, and by extension, WotC, and by extension Dungeons & Dragons... and the lessons of the past will be forgotten-- or at the very least ignored-- so that the new person/people can put their own stamp on the situation and their position in the company.

So someone new at Hasbro will step into a position of leadership, see the possibilities for making more money off the D&D brand, and attempt to push through ways for that to happen. And sometimes those ways will blow up in their face. Whether it's create 4E to avoid the OGL, or try to rescind the OGL itself as two examples. And when that does... the community will say 'No' and a bunch of people will need to backtrack or try and fix the mistake. And while things might get better for a time after that... eventually people will forget and/or new people will arrive that weren't there to experience the blow up... and something new will be attempted again... to pretty much the same sorts of results.

A creative game being owned and overseen by a monetarily-focused entity will see this flat circle revolve again and again and again.
 


To preface, this isn't a "this guy is clearly the enemy!" statement, but just a gut response to corporate generic responses: I'm not seeing anything that I don't see literally every time there's new management after previous management made a public mistake. This could have been about the XBox One launch.

Things that would matter to me:
  • "We are going to add to the CC using on the following schedule: <schedule>"
  • "We will absolutely never hire the Pinkertons for anything ever."
  • And if they want me to buy books immediately like day of: "We will not push back on a unionization effort by our staff"

Otherwise it's just "We hope you will forget what we did because Athasian Squirrel!"
 

I like the direction from him.

I did not see a link to the 5.2 document in the attachment though to look at it.

It also appear that the new edition which they came out and says is called 5.5e is now the 5.2 SRD. Maybe I'm not getting it enough though.
 



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