D&D General WotC's Dan Ayoub talks OGL mistakes--"we're recovering from loud public missteps"

In an interview with Wargamer, Dan Ayoub--head of Dungeons & Dragons at Wizards of the Coast--talked about the trust the company lost when it tried to rescind the Open Gaming License back in 2023. Ayoub took over at WotC in 2025, two years after the crisis, and said of the events "But I don't want to skirt the focus of your question. It was a rug pull, right? A lot of people and businesses were built up around a specific thing. Trust was given to the brand, and people rightly felt the rug was pulled from under them. In some cases, it's caused damage we are still trying to fix today."

He also spoke about D&D's new franchise model, reconnecting with classic D&D creators like Margaret Weis, Tracy Hickman, Bob Salvatore and Luke Gygax, and bringing on new partners. Check out the interview here.

 

[mamba]

Because different people are...............different and have different priorities. It's reasonable to think that in the future there could be executives who view the angering of however many customers to be small potatoes and not relevant in the long run.

They might be ok with angering their customers, but what is in it for them? Revoking the OGL now does not help them with 5e one bit

Is it guaranteed? No. Is it possible? Hell yes! And that possibility is where the problem is and why CC is the way to go.

I am all for getting the 3e SRD in CC, I just do not see a risk of WotC trying to revert the OGL again, there is nothing in it for them anymore.

 

[Pedantic]

The OGL Fiasco was the end of good faith relations with the industry. WotC signaled that they desire to use dubious legal tactics to change an agreement and significantly increase the cost of business.Whether or not their punch connected, they showed a willingness to throw one, and there's no going back from that. Tying their hands with the CC at least lets everyone stop looking for the next punch.

This is it exactly. They did a violent thing that ruined an established norm. That status quo is probably unrestorable, but making amends and earning trust requires they make a good faith effort to do so.

 

[dave2008]

I'm not going to explain it again. Chill out.

I'm chill. Did I seemed worked up? The internet is a strange medium.

 

[dave2008]

You asked the question, "What do you think putting 3e into CC would solve?" That was the answer. If you were aware, why ask the question?

IMO, that has no value as the OGL can't be revoked. WotC can posture all they want, but they don't have the power to do it.

 

[Art Waring]

I know its been a few years now, but it wasn't just about them attempting to revoke the OGL, they also specifically stated that they also owned everything ever published under the OGL, literally everything published for the past 20 YEARS was now their IP under the terms of the new OGL (if you bothered to read it).

They also tried to force the bigger names & content creators to sign it behind closed doors before the public could see the new OGL license. But nobody seems to remember this...

They not only sucker-punched the entire third-party publishing industry, the went full scorched-earth on everyone. There is no return from that.

...

How do I personally remember? Well, I was right in the middle of putting the finishing touches on my OGL-based ttrpg at the time, working all night until 5am writing, editing, making art (I am a traditional artist. with 25+ years of experience), editing art, hiring other artists, editing their art to fit the layout, and so on every day for years.

The announcement of the revoking of the OGL brought all of that crashing down. Like many others, I opted to branch away from 5e after that & design my own games. Haven't bought a single dnd book since then.

...

And all that aside... You know what I think they really lost? They lost a not-insignificant amount of the previous generation of gamers, and in the process they essentially burned the very people that cared about their game enough to play it in the LGS, to teach the next generation of gamers about why they love games and what games they want to create a lasting legacy for.

They showed us that legacy of 20 years of goodwill (and trust) meant nothing. We were the collateral damage they decided was acceptable when they moved forward with the OGL-disaster. They should be thinking about that in the years to come (but we already know that memories are short in the corporate world).

 

[Scribe]

I know its been a few years now, but it wasn't just about them attempting to revoke the OGL, they also specifically stated that they also owned everything ever published under the OGL, literally everything published for the past 20 YEARS was now their IP under the terms of the new OGL (if you bothered to read it).

I dont remember this part, that seems especially comical.

 

[Art Waring]

I dont remember this part, that seems especially comical.

Yeah I agree. I remember because I was posting the relevant bits of the "new" OGL license here on the forums to show that the new terms were ridiculous.

 

[Incenjucar]

IMO, that has no value as the OGL can't be revoked. WotC can posture all they want, but they don't have the power to do it.

It has the value of ending these conversations and the anxiety they're built on. Economic decisions are frequently built on confidence, and just like WotC's belief that they can Change the Deal, objective reality is not accepted as objective by everyone.

Better for the risk to be Actually Zero instead of Basically Zero.

 

[Desdichado]

Well, of course. Because you don't like the game. So the narrative that most others also don't like it and thus support your side makes you "look better". Not surprising... but also not at all convincing a take.

Wrong. I'm indifferent to it. I don't even honestly know much about it. I certain had no need for it, so I don't like it in that sense, but your narrative that I want it to be a failure for emotional reasons is absolutely false.

I'm always more impressed with people's opinions when they take the opposing tack... when they can admit a game is going great and is popular but they still just don't like it and are fine with that... or that they love a game even if sales and opinions on it are in the toilet. At least then we know they are not merely just looking to justify or validate their own opinions.

I'll let know know the next time I care about impressing you.

 

[Byrd]

I know its been a few years now, but it wasn't just about them attempting to revoke the OGL, they also specifically stated that they also owned everything ever published under the OGL, literally everything published for the past 20 YEARS was now their IP under the terms of the new OGL (if you bothered to read it).

A convenience, should an unnamed corporation wish to feed everything into an LLM, methinks...
All those pesky Section 15 Copyright Notices, getting in the way.

... And all that aside... You know what I think they really lost? They lost a not-insignificant amount of the previous generation of gamers, and in the process they essentially burned the very people that cared about their game enough to play it in the LGS, to teach the next generation of gamers about why they love games and what games they want to create a lasting legacy for.

The era of Open Source Software brought us the OGL. At the time I viewed the OGL as one of the carrots offered to offset the annoyance of changing rulesets. There was the future-proofing aspect as well, the fate of T$R being what it was.

They showed us that legacy of 20 years of goodwill (and trust) meant nothing. We were the collateral damage they decided was acceptable when they moved forward with the OGL-disaster. They should be thinking about that in the years to come (but we already know that memories are short in the corporate world).

Captain Dylan Hunt: “I trust Tyr to be Tyr".