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Josh Gentry - Author, Minister in Training
@hong - No stats for Zeitgeists. As things that cannot be killed or fought, there is no reason to stat them.

I like the article. I think I am actually incorporate it into my world, as it already kind of has ages which started with predominate individuals, and some sort of fluffy-rules for them is a nice inspiration.

Also, as a lot of people are continuing their homebrew, I think that WotC decided that they should give a nice little story tool to help them out. It is not for everyone, but it is a neat and handy idea.


First Post
This is the kind of article I like to see in Dragon, rich in ideas that spur creativity in the reader and lacking annoying mechanics.


Eternal Optimist
RyukenAngel said:
@hong - No stats for Zeitgeists. As things that cannot be killed or fought, there is no reason to stat them.

I don't understand. We are talking about an article for D&D, aren't we?


Doug McCrae

RyukenAngel said:
@hong - No stats for Zeitgeists. As things that cannot be killed or fought, there is no reason to stat them.
This is D&D. Everything can be killed. I want to see some stats for punctuation marks next.


First Post
Heh, I clicked on the thread thinking that there would be a discussion about the various zeitgeists of each D&D edition.

Oh! The bitter disappointment! ;)


Josh Gentry - Author, Minister in Training
Jim DelRosso said:
Killing a Zeitgeist will be an Epic-level challenge using the social mass-combat rules from the DMG2! :D
Someone cast Regenerate, I just busted my gut laughing!


A very good article, if not particularly useful to me personally. I thought the Lich-King pic though was nineteen kinds of awesome. :cool:


First Post
OK. How do they work?

Are they compulsion effects, overriding the facilities of mortals at key moments? Do they influence moments of random chance, weighting the scales of the universe towards a particular outcome in general? Most importantly, what happens when a Sufficiently Powerful mortal declares "**** this noise." and ushers in a new era, the 'Age of You Are ****ing Dead If You Start ****.'?

Encoded into D&D on a bone-deep level are two assumptions; random chance and the actions of certain individuals simply cannot be predicted or accounted for. As long as D&D is played as a game and not as a pre-determined-outcome collaborative storytelling exercise, it is impossible for anyone in the universe to know the outcome of certain events with certainty, because random die rolls and the ability of the characters to make decisions are both out of the purview of the game universe. As such, destiny is, at most, a rough map of the way the future might go.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea as so presented; in fact, I make it a point to include an active, quasi-anthropomorphic force of destiny in most of my campaign worlds. However, I do so treating it pretty much like any other NPC; I give it rules and limits, decide its goals and how it hopes to see them enacted, and then have it compete with every other character in the universe fairly. Hell, this is D&D; I say give Destiny stats like Pratchett's stories (detailed in Witches Abroad); we absolutely be able to kill fate and take its stuff.


First Post
I suspect that they're Harry Seldon-style Psychohistory effects.

Trust Hong. He's a statistician.
(And, PS: You cannot kill an idea. Ideas are bulletproof.)
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I think it's mostly so that a DM has something behind why the whole fricking world is acting in manner X or manner Y.

The actual statistical results of this would vary a great deal between campaigns.

Very nice article.

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