D&D 2E [2e] Monster Mythology Update Project

[dave2008]

I was never too fond of the serpent form of Asmodeus and exclude it from the lore if I actually use him.

Was it ever actually in official lore? I only ever came across the idea in Dicefreaks 3e very unofficial write-up of him.

 

[FleshEatingBlackFlutterby]

Nay! Asmodeus is, and forever will be, weaker than Demogorgon!

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1 hp more, 1 ac better, slower, easier to harm, fewer combat spells, no artifact, weaker psionics, 5% more magic resistance.

Sorry, but, as written, Asmodeus with his better abilities and far more organized and strategy minded minions would take Demorgorgon without much trouble.

1 on 1 is fairly even statwise, but Asmodeus is a tactical genius, while Demogorgon can't even get along with himself and keep it together enough to take down a master manipulator.

 

[FleshEatingBlackFlutterby]

Was it ever actually in official lore? I only ever came across the idea in Dicefreaks 3e very unofficial write-up of him.

The Guide To Hell talked about it, as well as a few other sources.

 

[cbwjm]

Was it ever actually in official lore? I only ever came across the idea in Dicefreaks 3e very unofficial write-up of him.

It was from a single 2e supplement, the guide to hell, which is the only place I know of that talked about it.

 

[dave2008]

The Guide To Hell talked about it, as well as a few other sources.

What other sources? That is the only source I have heard it from (well that and fans)

 

[Alzrius]

I recall somewhere in 2e that fiendish lords could grant clerics up to 3rd level spells, or 4th level if actually in the presence of the demon lord. I can't recall where it was though, I'm guessing planescape but I'd have to hunt around for it.

I also remember that, and was sure it was from On Hallowed Ground (affiliate link), but I can't seem to find the relevant text there now.

 

[dave2008]

1 hp more, 1 ac better, slower, easier to harm, fewer combat spells, no artifact, weaker psionics, 5% more magic resistance.

Sorry, but, as written, Asmodeus with his better abilities and far more organized and strategy minded minions would take Demorgorgon without much trouble.

1 on 1 is fairly even statwise, but Asmodeus is a tactical genius, while Demogorgon can't even get along with himself and keep it together enough to take down a master manipulator.

By definition here Demo is as intelligent as Asmo and IIRC, none of that nonsense about not being able to get along with himself is in the original design.

No statistically they are very similar, so I would really say Demo is stronger than Asmo. I would say they are roughly equal, it is just the elevation of Asmo, without a corresponding elevation of Demo has always bothered me. It was a post made in fun, I thought that was clear with how I wrote it. I mean I did say: Nay! No one who is series says that!

 

[Alzrius]

By definition here Demo is as intelligent as Asmo and IIRC, none of that nonsense about not being able to get along with himself is in the original design.

I distinctly recall that idea being introduced in one of the adventures from 3.0's original adventure path (i.e. the one that began with The Sunless Citadel and ended with The Bastion of Broken Souls).

 

[Voadam]

I give an edge to 1e Demogorgon in a fight against Asmodeus because his tail drains 1-4 levels per hit.

Even though Asmodeus has +3 magic needed to hit him and Demo only +2 I would assign Demogorgon more than 8+3 HD equivalence so he could penetrate it.

Asmodeus however is stronger

Demogorgon's tentacles only do a d6 hp damage each.

 

[AuldDragon]

Sorry, what I meant is that I don't think they'd have distinct, conforming cults, and Dragon #223 backs that up. Basically, regardless of which of the lords are worshiped, they would be a fairly generic "Devil Worshiping Cult" without concrete, organized distinction, being as same or as different as circumstances dictate. They'd be composed primarily of Clerics, sometimes Shamans, and often include Wizards (of various subclasses), but no Specialty Priests.

Except for Asmodeus, who is canonically a greater power (although I dislike his presentation in Guide to Hell), I don't see any of the others as true powers. They should be considered near-powers, like Graz'zt and other Abyssal lords who are not true powers. They're still really powerful (especially on their own layer) and can't be casually killed like actual powers can, but they're still in a different category. I believe their spell granting powers are limited to level 3 or 4; I'd have to check Faces of Evil (EDIT: Hellbound-The Blood War, p. 51 of the DM's book says 3rd normally, 4th in person, same as the Archomentals, but only in reference to tanar'ri lords).

None of them have actual portfolios so far as I've been able to determine. Even the abyssal lords who want to be true powers have portfolios.