Variant Turning Rules + Sun Domain

I recently decided to switch to the alternate turning rules within the Complete Divine. However, I am wondering how I should modify the Sun Domain to account for this. The Sun Domain basically allows all Turn attempts to destroy Undead rather than Turn them. Since the revised rules basically cause Turning to do damage, this does not quite fit any more.

What do you suggest?

(Oh, and here is a summary of the alternate turning rules from Complete Divine).

- Turning is a Standard Action (ie: You can move + turn in the same round, much like making a normal attack)
- Turning does 1d6 / level of damage to all Undead within 30 feet.
- The Undead get a will save for half damage
- The Save DC is 10 + Cleric Level + Charisma modifier.
- Evil Clerics can heal Undead within 30 ft for 1d6 / Cleric Level
- Undead with Turn Resistance will subract the resist value from the turning damage

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Lord Zardoz said:

The Sun Domain basically allows all Turn attempts to destroy Undead rather than Turn them.

Click to expand...

You may want to read the Sun Domain ability again. It allows this ONCE PER DAY, not "all" turn attempts!

Though Mistwell is Correct the problem remains with what to do with the ability. I would either increase damage 4d6 or increase the saving throw by +4 once a day instead. I use that system slightly modified for a cone effect instead of a radius and the damage is Level + Char modifier in D6. The Evil Clerics can bolster (Grant temp HPTs lasting an hour ) to Undead instead.

I also Apply Turn resistance as a Resistance to this damage equal to 5 Times the turn resistance.

So far it has worked well but not to high enough level to know how well.

Later

Thanks for the heads up on that Mistwell.

Additional Damage or a bonus to the save DC both sound fine.

I could try kicking up the damage dice to 1d8 per level as well I suppose. Any other ideas?

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D8 per level sounds good.

Or add Wis modifier to DC and ignore turn resistance.

Or no save.

Any of the above would be once per day, of course. Your choice should also account for anyones interest in the Radient Servant of Pelor PrC. D8s multiple times per day is livable, multiple no save may not be. Adding Wis to the save seems like the most viable to me.

Not a fan. I play an undead and put a lot of effort in turn resistence to prevent being turned. I now have a +9 turn resistance so I definatly am resistant to turning, but with your system, a lower lvl cleric is still doing damage to me? A +9 resistance is a huge resistance to most clerics. And if you made the damage d8s, a measly DR9 to the turn damage does not compensate for how much a lower lvl cleric is going to hurt me with that turn attempt.

I dont think its equal, just my opinion. But I dont have any good ideas on how to make it equal. Hopefully some of yall do.

I should also say that with a damage variant, TR should be doubled. This brings it more in line energy resistances.

I dont like using Turning as is for reasons that have been mentioned in many places. The current system makes what might have been a good combat encounter into one of 3 things.

1) The Undead simply run away
2) The Undead are all outright destroyed
3) The Cleric botches his Turn checks and we have a TPK

The system presented in Complete Divine makes it easeir to create a challenging encounter with Undead.

And consider that the base Undead HD is a d12, and that it appears that Will is the strong save for many Undead. An 8th Level Cleric against an 8HD Undead creature is probably going to have to blast it with at least 2 Turn attempts to fry it outright, perhaps more if the creature can make his saves. And if there are evil Clerics on hand, they can do alot to keep their Undead in the fight.

That brings to mind another thought, however.

Can an Undead Cleric use its own turning power to heal its self (Or bolster its self if using the original rules)?

Getting back to the Turn Resistance effect, I agree that DR based Turn Resistance to the turning attempt is not nearly as useful to this modified Turning rule as Turn Resistance is to the original rules. I may yet tweak that, but for the moment, I an content to let it play out before I decide to do anything to it.

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