Thrown Weapon Seeker with nothing to throw...

[mysticknight232]

Does it seem strange to others that the only weapons a Thrown Weapon Seeker build can throw are Daggers and Javelins? Not to mention all the pretty pictures they give us of Elf Seekers dual-wielding throwing axes and tossing them at enemies. I find it really hard to justify forcing a class to take a feat just to get a particular thrown weapon. Thrown weapons don't deal a ton of dmg anyway, so limiting what you can throw just seems very poorly through out by WotC imo. And i love how the powers allow you to use them in melee or ranged...but you must have a light or heavy thrown weapon. Seems to me that i'd rather use a better weapon and just go melee with the class in that case.

I was very excited to build a Thrown Weapon Seeker, but the range and dmg just don't do it any justice. you'd be stupid to build anything but a traditional longbow/greatbow seeker.

Anybody have any thoughts on this? Am i missing something in the CB under thrown weapons or does this build really seem way outclassed by the Vengeful Seeker build?

Thanks and happy hunting!

 

[DracoSuave]

Farbond Spellblade.

And thrown weapon seekers aren't supposed to be long range. They get IN THERE.

Hense why some of their attacks are melee as well.

 

[Obryn]

Yeah, the Thrown seeker seems a bit less intriguing to me than the Bow seeker. However, I have noticed that a quick Superior Weapon Proficiency for something like Drow Long Knife means it's a +4 proficiency weapon.

Still, Greatbow vs. Drow Long Knife or Tratnyr... Not much of a contest, IMO.

-O

 

[DracoSuave]

Greatbow vs Farbond Spellblade Fullblade tho IS a contest.

But really, it's a controller, the closer range build is the -control- build, why would it be the damage king?

If you wanted to do massive damage with a bow, you'd be a Ranger. This is a different country.

 

[Obryn]

I dunno, I see great value in controlling the battlefield from 20+ squares back.

And yes, there are specific magic weapons that can do very well for a Thrown Weapon character. (Hungry Greatspear is my personal favorite here, fwiw.) But then you're locked into that specific weapon enchantment - not a negligible downside, IMO.

-O

 

[DracoSuave]

Yes, but 'upgrade your weapon two dice levels and give it high crit' isn't exactly a bad property to have on a weapon.


But, regardless, the seeker's a different animal-- weapons that give honest control in the same order that orbs or staffs do are what you want, and those are not so common in bows; generally you're looking at stuff that requires axes, light blades, heavy blades, hammers, spears...

...which is where a bowseeker loses out greatly.

Just cause it has [W] in the power doesn't mean you want to fill it with the highest die you can. Controllers should be looking at the powers of weapons and how they maximize his role, not at how much DPR they can squeeze out of it.

 

[Mr. Teapot]

Just cause it has [W] in the power doesn't mean you want to fill it with the highest die you can. Controllers should be looking at the powers of weapons and how they maximize his role, not at how much DPR they can squeeze out of it.

This is true in general, but especially true for seekers, as their powers are typically 1[w] + extra damage + effect, as opposed to other classes that get 2[w] or 3[w] or more.


+4 proficiency bonus from a feat or weapon enchantment seems pretty nice. Better than a few more points of damage, if you're interested in control.

 

[Obryn]

But, regardless, the seeker's a different animal-- weapons that give honest control in the same order that orbs or staffs do are what you want, and those are not so common in bows; generally you're looking at stuff that requires axes, light blades, heavy blades, hammers, spears...

...which is where a bowseeker loses out greatly.

Such as? Honestly, I'm not seeing where those weapons win out over a bow, particularly if you need to take the Farbond Spellblade or Hungry enchantments to use them as a thrown weapon. (And remember, really you're limited to daggers and javelins without spending a feat, so I don't know why axes, heavy blades, and hammers are on that list.)

Sky's the limit with bows and crossbows, though. Any enchantment works equally well for them. Spending a feat, you have +2/1d12 and +3/1d10 options, too.

Just cause it has [W] in the power doesn't mean you want to fill it with the highest die you can.

Yes, you do, so long as your feat isn't better spent elsewhere. And that's part of the problem - a thrown weapon seeker doesn't have much of a choice in whether or not to spend that feat up-front. +3/1d4 and +2/1d6 aren't great, even when compared to other Controllers.

You might not be a striker, and you certainly don't want to compare DPR with them, but by doing more damage you are still contributing to combat in a meaningful way. Just because you're a controller doesn't make the damage you do less useful than that of a striker.

-O

 

[Herschel]

I was toying with the up-close Seeker a bit too and I was thinking Dwarf was the way to go with Wisdom boost and Dwarven Weapon Training for hand axes as well as the Second Wind as a minor since it wouldn't have defender HP/defenses.

 

[DracoSuave]

I had this long diatribe all planned out on how close ranged seekers are just fine, control options, blah blah blah...


Then I realized trident is +3/1d8 damage military vs a long bow's +2/1d10 and I realized that, damage-wise, +3/1d8 is better, and control-wise, +3 is better, and I stopped worrying about their damage because they have great OAs and an encounter power that throws in an extra hit.

And then I realized the only advantage of the bow-seeker is range, and that they're probably better off using crossbows than bows, and then I went to bed.

Long story short: Every argument about bow/crossbow seekers that ignores the fact that throwseekers get +1 to hit with their weapons is an incomplete argument and should relook at the numbers.

You're not comparing +2/1d4 to +2/1d10. You're comparing +4/1d6 to +2/1d12 (in superior), or +3/1d8 to +2/1d10 (without a feat).

Or in the case of dwarves, +3/1d6+2 vs +2/1d12.

Or in the case of eladrin, +3/1d8+2 vs +2/1d12.

And most seeker powers at early levels anyways, are 1[W]+stuff, so the fact it's +2 -actually doesn't get washed out-.


Also, with a 16/16/12/11/10/9 array, an elf can go Heavy Blade Opportunity with that drow long knife...

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Grappling Spirits or Biting Swarm would be -very- good options to take with that, by the way.