The Essential Knight

[fanboy2000]

Well, this is going to make a lot of people (even me, the eternal WotC fanboy) happy:

Basic Attacks: As a fighter, you make most of your attacks using basic attacks. Some classes rely primarily on class-specific attack powers, whereas you typically make basic attacks enhanced by your fighter stances and other class features and powers.

While I like the fighter the way it was, I still feel that this is an improvement.

The preview is, as the others were, up for all to see. I didn't see anything that they didn't get dailies, but I suspect that's just because we don't get the whole fighter section.

 

[Aegeri]

Well, this is going to make a lot of people (even me, the eternal WotC fanboy) happy:
While I like the fighter the way it was, I still feel that this is an improvement.

The preview is, as the others were, up for all to see. I didn't see anything that they didn't get dailies, but I suspect that's just because we don't get the whole fighter section.

They don't get dailies, you can tell by looking at the fact at level 1 and 5 it says they get some random class feature. Of course as I wrote in the other thread this one actually really infuriated me. It's by far the biggest change out of the classes we've been shown and we were basically given the least about it. I want to know what they replace dailies with, what options do they get for improving MBAs, how much damage do they get to do and such forth.

I actually feel we needed to see far more of this class, because what I have seen didn't impress me in the least. "Devolving" the fighter back into "I swing my sword for a MBA every round" is by far the worst thing they've done.

 

[ggroy]

Wonder if they changed the 4E multiclassing or 4E hybrid classes rules too, to accommodate the structural differences in the 4E Essentials classes.

I suppose they could always go back to the old multiclassing rules from 3E/3.5E or earlier editions.

 

[Kingreaper]

I actually feel we needed to see far more of this class, because what I have seen didn't impress me in the least. "Devolving" the fighter back into "I swing my sword for a MBA every round" is by far the worst thing they've done.

I don't see that. This fighter switches stances, essentially meaning that the at-will he just used is also his opportunity attack.
And he gets more stances at higher levels.

His one encounter power we've seen is usable only when you've already hit: ie. you can't waste it, but you don't have to track things like Reliable. Seems good to me.


I do wish it was a longer article though. So much to explore.

 

[fanboy2000]

They don't get dailies, you can tell by looking at the fact at level 1 and 5 it says they get some random class feature.

The only reason I hesitate is that I'm wondering if some of those class features are daily non-attack powers.

I actually feel we needed to see far more of this class, because what I have seen didn't impress me in the least. "Devolving" the fighter back into "I swing my sword for a MBA every round" is by far the worst thing they've done.

I agree.

 

[Mouseferatu]

"Devolving" the fighter back into "I swing my sword for a MBA every round" is by far the worst thing they've done.

Good thing they didn't do that, then.

One more time... This is in addition to the existing fighter builds. Not instead of. The knight has exactly zero effect on the fighter as it already stands; it merely adds a much simpler option for those who want it.

And yes, there are players who really do just want "I swing my sword every round," or at least close to it. I've played with them.

If WotC had said "The old fighter builds are no longer official" (whatever "official" could possibly mean in this case, with so much support already out there), I'd agree, it'd be a horrible choice. But since that's not what they're doing, I honestly don't understand the fuss.

 

[Aegeri]

I don't see that. This fighter switches stances, essentially meaning that the at-will he just used is also his opportunity attack.
And he gets more stances at higher levels.

It doesn't change this is a class that gets 1 power and stances are unlikely to be substantially better than at-wills. Does he get daily and encounter stances that provide better benefits? A class that's all about doing one thing every day all day is boring - even if you can pretty it up by adding different riders all you are doing is using one power for the whole fight with little variation.

His one encounter power we've seen is usable only when you've already hit: ie. you can't waste it, but you don't have to track things like Reliable. Seems good to me.

Yeah, the fighter gets as an encounter power what the Half-Orc gets as a racial feature (also an encounter power). I'm sure making a melee basic attack with a relatively non-spectacular effect into a 2[W] power with a still non-spectacular effect is a great trade off.

It's basically going to end up how furious assault is usually used, stick it on the first crit you roll (if you remember).

If WotC had said "The old fighter builds are no longer official" (whatever "official" could possibly mean in this case, with so much support already out there), I'd agree, it'd be a horrible choice. But since that's not what they're doing, I honestly don't understand the fuss.

I actually do understand this concept, but you've missed the core point that this is how classes will be designed from here on out. Many classes previously used the same structure, hence what we had before and this is a very radically different structure. While the old fighter goes nowhere, how do other classes interact with this by multiclassing? Is it possible to combine a Knights Stances with another classes at-wills that count as melee basic attacks? Being different is one thing, determining how these things will overall interact is another.

My point is that I'm simply indicating my dislike about this new direction to a degree. I like the mage and I think the cleric are good directions. I don't like this at all from what I've seen. More explanation would be fantastic as to how it overall fits together, because right now it looks extremely boring to play and probably pretty underpowered to a normal fighter.

 

[Ahrimon]

Aren't most fighter attacks really nothing more than a MBA with a extra oomph? Why couldn't they replace most powers with a "when you hit with a MBA you get to add X effect/damage/etc".

There might be a few that wouldn't translate well. I can see the other side of the coin in that we moved away from MBA and got lots of cool abilities and now it's coming back.

I'm more annoyed that they get plate than anything else.

 

[spinmd]

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, leather, hide, chainmail, scale, plate; light shield, heavy shield

Interesting...

EDIT: Ninja'd

 

[Aegeri]

Well, he is a knight and that does make sense for a heavily armoured warrior. He also technically AoE marks right out of the gate as well, so heavier armour is more of a necessity in this case. Personally the best thing about the knight is that aura based marking, which is worded pretty well so you don't "double dip" a mark with another allied defender as well.

This is where I would love to see more encounter powers or similar. Just something to show they have some degree of versatility beyond "use MBA + minor effect" 90% of the time.