D&D 4E 4E sword and sorcery..
- Thread starter Chainsaw
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Nifft
Penguin Herder
1/ Ditch the standard 4e magic items -- no more +X anything. Instead, use the bonuses per level provided in the DMG. I can elaborate on this if you'd like.
2/ Put back in some rare magic items -- but they only have properties & powers, not the +X stuff. These break or get broken regularly. Who cares, you don't actually need them to be effective, they're just for the cool factor.
That's about it. 4e already separates big bad guy powers from PC powers (i.e. the PCs can't ever have an army of shambling undead like the BBEG could), so there's far less chance the PCs will sabotage the "feel" of your setting via spell access.
Cheers, -- N
2/ Put back in some rare magic items -- but they only have properties & powers, not the +X stuff. These break or get broken regularly. Who cares, you don't actually need them to be effective, they're just for the cool factor.
That's about it. 4e already separates big bad guy powers from PC powers (i.e. the PCs can't ever have an army of shambling undead like the BBEG could), so there's far less chance the PCs will sabotage the "feel" of your setting via spell access.
Cheers, -- N
Very kind of you, but no need - I can look it up.
Just to clarify - you mean the +x breaks/gets broken regularly, right?
Thanks for the suggestions.
Any thoughts on excluding/reflavoring races? I'm considering having plainsmen/rivermen/coastmen (human mechanics), mountain men (dwarf mechanics) and forestmen (elf mechanics), but not really including many others (especially what would amount to 'monster' races - dragonborn, tiefling, etc).
Any thoughts on excluding/reflavoring classes? Most of the martial classes fit fine, I think, but classes with "magic" may be limited to magic-users (wizard for black, cleric for white), warlocks (witches?), druids (nature magic?). I'm not QUITE sure how to implement this well, but what I'm trying to create is magic being rare, scary, misunderstood, not trusted, etc. Magic users would more than likely pass themselves off as "adventurers" in towns and avoid disclosing their powers to the natives and so forth.
Nothing's really set in stone though. Just brainstorming at this point.
Garthanos
Arcadian Knight
use lots and lots of minions... conans and elrics need minions to run roughshod over... and dont necessarily play them too strategic either... ;p they are there to make the heros cool and wizards scarey. People hate and distrust wizards because "normal folk" are minions...
Haha, good point. Also, bonus XP for spending gold on booze, gambling and other nocturnal activities!
Garthanos
Arcadian Knight
get the gold != mechanical game power disconnect firmly in place and the money will almost automagically get spent on classic targets.... wine, women and song. sex, drugs and rock and roll ... ummm grog wenches and minstrels to woo them with.
Nifft
Penguin Herder
Nope, I mean have all kinds of items break regularly, so the PCs never get attached to them. It's the man, not the loot. If some monster breaks your sword, then you kick to death the next humanoid you meet, and you take his sword.
You could tone down the races into "bloodlines", so everyone is actually human, but some humans are "normal" and can take Human feats, while others have traces of Draconic ancestry and can take Dragonborn feats, etc.
Or you could just say "you are all Human", and be done with it. Humans are good at everything.
There's no need to limit spellcasters anymore, but likewise no need to keep them. Spellcasters don't automatically break a low-magic setting in 4e, but similarly they're not necessary to the game any more. You could do fine with just Martial and Primal classes, or just Martial and Divine, or even just plain Martial.
The game used to be balanced around the assumption that you had a Cleric in the party. That's no longer the case: now it's balanced around the assumption that you have a Leader.
Cheers, -- N
Ah, gotcha. "Break/broken" gets used in a design theory context so much that I almost failed to recognize it when used literally.
Interesting ideas. I may end up using a slick fix like that.
I'm not necessarily concerned with trying to balance any of the classes, but to exclude or reflavor the ones whose abilities and powers disrupt the campaign's tone. Unfortunately, though, this is one of the challenges of working with 4E. There is alot of baggage built into everything that's not necessarily easy to customize - and my players probably walk if I exclude TOO much. Anyway, this isn't a deal breaker, just something I have to work around. Honestly, if we accept that the PCs are actually uniquely successful/powerful (relative to other inhabitants), then I don't mind a LITTLE "wahoo" on their part (e.g., you can be a human wizard, haha).. what I'm NOT interested in is a world where every town is a perfectly diverse Mos Eisley blend of critters and Magic Stores and the party is comprised of a half-dragon wizard, a drow elf assassin, a goblin warlord and a fairy shaman with lycanthropy. I have run campaigns before where the players were all human and didn't encounter a non-human foe for several levels. I'm not necessarily looking for that, but I do want the fantastic to be fantastic and not commonplace.
Well, if the power source actually dictated the degree of magical-type effects, I might use that method, but it doesn't really - at least not based on what I've read and seen played.
Thanks again for taking the time to make suggestions, Nifft. I really appreciate the effort. Honestly, I would probably be playing a different game if I had my way, but I'd lose the players, so I have to exclude/flavor 4E where possible and accept what's not adjustable. I think it'll work out fine in the end. My descriptions and setting elements should guide things well enough.
I completely agree with Nifft's suggestions.
I would ditch all power sources except Martial, and all races that are not human.
As of reskinning, the obvious ones are races that are not too different from humans (e.g. Dragonborns out, Elves in, Eladrin out, Halflings in, Gnomes out, etc.). Specifically, if their racial powers are non-magical or non-flashy.
The other problem you'll run in is that the adventures and the campaign should be a lot more focused on story elements, since loot will be moot
Low magic settings are traditionally poor too. Even their luxuries are lame, they are just banal pleasures and adornments, something that has no mechanic consequence.
I would ditch all power sources except Martial, and all races that are not human.
As of reskinning, the obvious ones are races that are not too different from humans (e.g. Dragonborns out, Elves in, Eladrin out, Halflings in, Gnomes out, etc.). Specifically, if their racial powers are non-magical or non-flashy.
The other problem you'll run in is that the adventures and the campaign should be a lot more focused on story elements, since loot will be moot
Low magic settings are traditionally poor too. Even their luxuries are lame, they are just banal pleasures and adornments, something that has no mechanic consequence.
DreamChaser
Explorer
I completely agree with Nifft's suggestions.
I would ditch all power sources except Martial, and all races that are not human.
As of reskinning, the obvious ones are races that are not too different from humans (e.g. Dragonborns out, Elves in, Eladrin out, Halflings in, Gnomes out, etc.). Specifically, if their racial powers are non-magical or non-flashy.
The other problem you'll run in is that the adventures and the campaign should be a lot more focused on story elements, since loot will be moot
Low magic settings are traditionally poor too. Even their luxuries are lame, they are just banal pleasures and adornments, something that has no mechanic consequence.
I don't think ditching other PSs is the answer...the focus could be more on concept.
All the martial classes work: They are pure training.
-- Warlock works well because this is the "mortals knowing things they shouldn't"
-- Shaman has a strong presence in many low magic concepts because the power (again) is external to the character.
-- Barbarian has few overtly supernatural abilities so it is a good fit too.
-- Artificer (for all that it seems tied to magical items) is the easiest arcane class to reskin for low magic feel as an alchemist / tinkerer
-- Paladin can work well because few of their powers are "laser" powers.
-- Monk works but may not go well with the theme
So my suggested classes would be Artificer, Barbarian, Fighter, (Monk), Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Shaman, Warlock, Warlord
Note that the area you really lose is Controllers but controllers are also the easiest role to do without. You simple account for the lack of mass minion death and use lower level minions than the part average when you send a mass of them after the party.
DC
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