D&D 4E Teaching 4E to a bunch of grognards

[ravenheart]

Ok, the title says it all really:

I'm planning a one-shot adventure this saturday (17.7.2010) for a couple of old friends who actually taught me D&D 3E in the first place. None of them have any experience of 4E play whatsoever, and only one of them is vaguely familiar with the rules (although he hasn't really got the hang of it, despite his efforts). He was insisting on building his own character ("since he is a powergamer"), but I convinced him to let me help when I pointed out his many, MANY misconceptions.

The others asked me to do their characters for them, which I'm more than willing to do. All in all there'll probably be about 3 players, with maybe a couple of my regular 4E players joining in as auxilliary players and "mentors"(for the mentors ). Any thought on a newbie friendly party make-up?

tl;dr -Do any of you have any good ideas for a low-level one-shot adventure I could DM this Saturday? I was actually looking at Goblin Folly from DRA:MD, any good?

EDIT: Oops, this was supposed to go into 4E discussion, any kind mods here that could move it to it's rightful place? Thanks in advance.

 

[Mentat55]

I'd go with familiar race/class combos, this helps highlight the differences and similarities between 4e and previous editions. So a dwarf fighter, human cleric, halfling rogue, and eladrin wizard would go well, or something along those lines.

I'd aim for a mix of familiar D&D tropes, so they can see how 4e interprets them, and new stuff, to showcase the strengths of 4e: dynamic terrain, minions, traps as encounters, etc.

 

[Gorok]

Ok, the title says it all really:

I was actually looking at Goblin Folly from DRA:MD, any good?

What company/source is "DRA:MD"? I am looking at running a one-shot as well, and wanted to look at this module as a potential option.

I agree about using "generic" characters, as Mentat suggested. In my case, I'm making pre-generated characters, with those type of choices.

Thanks!

 

[Verdande]

Quick note: People who prefer 3rd edition aren't quite grognards just yet.

That said, it's hard to predict where to aim when introducing new games. If you try and make it feel "familiar" and "similar", you risk them not seeing enough differences to warrant a change. But if you make it to "new" and "different" you risk them not liking it at all.

The reason it's so hard is that you can't predict what people will like in a game, and what they won't. I thought Dragonborn were the silliest race ever, but my girlfriend jumped on them immediately and wants to be a Dragonborn in every game now. I never would have guessed it, and if I'd made her character for her, it wouldn't have been a dragonborn.

I guess my best advice is to find the reasons you like the game and try and emphasize those. If you think a certain class/race combination is a lot of fun, make your players some of those. If you like the way that 4e handles skill challenges, put lots of those in. If you don't show off the best parts of the game in your first adventure, you might not get to play your game again.

 

[Jan van Leyden]

I'd go with familiar race/class combos, this helps highlight the differences and similarities between 4e and previous editions. So a dwarf fighter, human cleric, halfling rogue, and eladrin wizard would go well, or something along those lines.

Quite the opposite, in my opinion.

Prepare characters of new classes like Warlord, Avenger, Swordmage, and Seeker to make it clear that they don't play known classes with slight changes.

Prepare Power Cards and explain the 4e resource management based on these cards. Explain 4e's roles based on the selected classes.

I think 4e is easier to approach as a new game without 3e baggage.

Oh, and make sure the players understand the dying rules: three rounds and you may be dead meat.

 

[AtomicPope]

I've had to teach 4E to Grognards. I'd say it depends on how far their Grognardia has progressed and damaged their ability to enjoy games. The way I taught it to my Grognards is I converted old 1E and 2E modules. They played those modules in the past and 4E is much better at capturing the feel of classic AD&D then 3E ever was. I didn't tell them it was a classic module, they were able to guess that they're playing "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands" as a Supermodule. In classic AD&D you often fought many monsters at a time with an occasional solo combat.

I also stressed the basics -
1) Simple Rules - Things are straight forward. The attacker rolls the defender has a static defense. It keeps the game from becoming a dice rolling exercise.
2) Be Positive - Explain the game in terms of what the players can do. I rarely told them - NO! You can't charge and jump over a table. So jump over a table and stab an orc in the face.
3) Classes are Exclusive - Make it a point that classes are something special. I had to keep correcting one "know-it-all" player who would say, "You're just a fighter! They're a dime a dozen." Uh... Not true. All classes are special and extremely rare. The fighter in your party is probably the only fighter you'll ever meet. And I kept my promise. They only knew their human fighter. (It's a 3E conceit)
4) PCs are Special - Make it a point that PCs are not common. They're heroes. They have powers and abilities unlike anyone else in the world.

If they're really old school then those four points will remind them of a time when classes and levels mattered. A time when monsters were meant to be slain and NPCs weren't simply PCs that were played by the DM.

Almost forgot...
5) Keep Combat Quick - Limit their time in combat to 1 minute turns. Read any suggestion on how to fix "4E is slow" and you won't find a single detailed combat timer. Giving players 5 minutes a turn makes combat slow. Inexperienced Grognards often take longer then Noobs. Limit their time to 1 minute and combat flies by. But you should also limit your time. They'll pay attention to the combat instead of wandering off (this happens in a PF game I play a bard in every Tuesday. Tonight infact). Quick combats means players enjoy the game rather than fuss over "how much the game has changed."

Once you've run a few good sessions you'll be all set. My campaign is over and they're already begging for me to build another one.