Group Therapy with Dice
Posted 18th December 2008 at 07:18 PM by Janx
I saw the term "Group Therapy with Dice", recently in a thread. I think it was Mallus who said it. It makes a good point, that gaming with people reveals a lot of their personal quirks and flaws.
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Most of this entry is going to be controversial in advice. Executed to an extreme, it's horrible advice. However, used in moderation, along with good judgement, honest treatment of others, and in positive ways for positive ends, you should get good results.
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If you skim any threads dealing with problem players, you see the same common theme. People put up with broken people.
Consider that in life, you can't really choose your family, your co-workers, or your classmates. You can choose your friends, however. Who you do voluntary activities with is your business. Life is short, don't waste it playing with people who irritate you.
Consider in RPGs, the obnoxious or traitor PC. Your party will probably accept any PC into the party, because the player is sitting right there, expecting to join. Whereas, any NPC party or real life employer would dump or reject anybody who behaves as the obnoxious or traitor PC does.
What's going on is some people don't understand how to actually work together, be a team, and be friendly. They rely on this default assumption of acceptance, and their personal quirks abuse that acceptance.
Consider the stereotypical school-yard pick-up game of kickball. The two alpha jocks take turns picking, each intending to leave out the sucks-at-sports nerd (or stick him on the other team). They understand that you don't take in people who don't fit in.
Now let me make it clear, it ain't right or job to ostrasize or ridicule people. It's right to give people a chance, and show them good behavior through your own. But in the end, you don't have to hang out with jerks. You don't have to play with obnoxious people who can't work together.
It turns out, from my other hobbies, that gaming isn't the only hobby riddled with defective people. Go check out forums dedicated to playing in bands. They have almost the exact same problems. It's creepy how similar they are.
Common defects I see are:
talks a good game, but doesn't deliver
flakes out on making schedules
argues about ANYTHING, just to argue
doesn't do their assigned tasks/help out
is rude, and offensive
says they'll change, but reverts to form
wants everything to focus on them
Now there are people who have these traits, and they work on keeping them in check. The problem people are those that don't. They're in denial that the behaviors cause problems. Fact is, you can't fix them. Nor should you tolerate the behavior, because it will eat at you, which will cause you to behave badly.
Ultimately, the worst offenders are using your group. Humans are social creatures. Even the anti-social ones. It's like a feral cave-baby, sees the campfire and the community, and wants to be warm. But he can't help but bite everyone at the fire, while he's there.
I suggest, that with 6 billion people on the planet, and you having a finite lifespan, you don't need to waste time on feral cave-babies. Identify them, and excuse yourself from their company.
The trick then, is how to identify them. One thing I suggest, is to be neither too inviting nor too closed. I've met people who almost instantly invite you to their game table or house. That's nuts. You don't really know them, and they don't really know you. You should talk awhile about a lot of different subjects. You should be listening as much as your talking. If it's lopsided, that's a warning sign (execessive talking means your not sharing the conversation). If the person is voicing really strong opinions, beware, you may have an arguer. These people seem clueless that somebody may disagree, and feel they have a righteous cause to convert you. They're certainly not respecting (with caution and qualifying statements) that you may have differing opinions.
Some of the other traits require more time. Somebody has to prove they're a flake, or that they really don't mean the things they say. That's why you don't invite them to your long-running campaign with your best friends. You invite them to something more informal. You need to see if they can make and keep appointments, and follow through. If they play like they say they do. If they chip in with snacks, or if they mooch off everyone else, and don't say thanks. Don't invite them to your home or big game, until you're sure you like them, lest the trust you place on them be turned against you.
Another good, though controversial point, is to surround yourself with people of a comparable station and attitude in life. Extreme Example: Poor gamers playing with 1 rich guy, the rich guy has more resources and may feel that everyone else is mooching off him. Or he may lord his stuff over everyone else. This is the same awkwardness the poor guy in a rich group may feel. The rest of the group talks of going to GenCon as if it were trivial (because it is to them). The poor guy will feel left out, because he can't afford to go, and doesn't want to feel like a charity case.
There are plenty of good examples where a mixed group has value. You don't want to get stuck in group think, though I suspect that happens more when there's pressure to conform. And I'm not talking about having cookie-cutter friends. Since everybody's different, you're not really going to have that. I'm simply talking about building a group of friends who have enough in common, that the differences add value, not subtract. The best commonality is that they don't exhibit those defects I talk above.
Side Career Advice:If you want to be successfull, have successful friends. It's not about sucking up, it's about having connections, habits, and ideas rub off on you.
I certainly don't condone the pretty girl with ugly friends technique, just so she'll look prettier. Or the join the popular group, just to belong. That's not being true to yourself. It's really about surrounding yourself with happy, successful people, not losers who don't achieve anything, or bring you down to their level.
---
Most of this entry is going to be controversial in advice. Executed to an extreme, it's horrible advice. However, used in moderation, along with good judgement, honest treatment of others, and in positive ways for positive ends, you should get good results.
---
If you skim any threads dealing with problem players, you see the same common theme. People put up with broken people.
Consider that in life, you can't really choose your family, your co-workers, or your classmates. You can choose your friends, however. Who you do voluntary activities with is your business. Life is short, don't waste it playing with people who irritate you.
Consider in RPGs, the obnoxious or traitor PC. Your party will probably accept any PC into the party, because the player is sitting right there, expecting to join. Whereas, any NPC party or real life employer would dump or reject anybody who behaves as the obnoxious or traitor PC does.
What's going on is some people don't understand how to actually work together, be a team, and be friendly. They rely on this default assumption of acceptance, and their personal quirks abuse that acceptance.
Consider the stereotypical school-yard pick-up game of kickball. The two alpha jocks take turns picking, each intending to leave out the sucks-at-sports nerd (or stick him on the other team). They understand that you don't take in people who don't fit in.
Now let me make it clear, it ain't right or job to ostrasize or ridicule people. It's right to give people a chance, and show them good behavior through your own. But in the end, you don't have to hang out with jerks. You don't have to play with obnoxious people who can't work together.
It turns out, from my other hobbies, that gaming isn't the only hobby riddled with defective people. Go check out forums dedicated to playing in bands. They have almost the exact same problems. It's creepy how similar they are.
Common defects I see are:
talks a good game, but doesn't deliver
flakes out on making schedules
argues about ANYTHING, just to argue
doesn't do their assigned tasks/help out
is rude, and offensive
says they'll change, but reverts to form
wants everything to focus on them
Now there are people who have these traits, and they work on keeping them in check. The problem people are those that don't. They're in denial that the behaviors cause problems. Fact is, you can't fix them. Nor should you tolerate the behavior, because it will eat at you, which will cause you to behave badly.
Ultimately, the worst offenders are using your group. Humans are social creatures. Even the anti-social ones. It's like a feral cave-baby, sees the campfire and the community, and wants to be warm. But he can't help but bite everyone at the fire, while he's there.
I suggest, that with 6 billion people on the planet, and you having a finite lifespan, you don't need to waste time on feral cave-babies. Identify them, and excuse yourself from their company.
The trick then, is how to identify them. One thing I suggest, is to be neither too inviting nor too closed. I've met people who almost instantly invite you to their game table or house. That's nuts. You don't really know them, and they don't really know you. You should talk awhile about a lot of different subjects. You should be listening as much as your talking. If it's lopsided, that's a warning sign (execessive talking means your not sharing the conversation). If the person is voicing really strong opinions, beware, you may have an arguer. These people seem clueless that somebody may disagree, and feel they have a righteous cause to convert you. They're certainly not respecting (with caution and qualifying statements) that you may have differing opinions.
Some of the other traits require more time. Somebody has to prove they're a flake, or that they really don't mean the things they say. That's why you don't invite them to your long-running campaign with your best friends. You invite them to something more informal. You need to see if they can make and keep appointments, and follow through. If they play like they say they do. If they chip in with snacks, or if they mooch off everyone else, and don't say thanks. Don't invite them to your home or big game, until you're sure you like them, lest the trust you place on them be turned against you.
Another good, though controversial point, is to surround yourself with people of a comparable station and attitude in life. Extreme Example: Poor gamers playing with 1 rich guy, the rich guy has more resources and may feel that everyone else is mooching off him. Or he may lord his stuff over everyone else. This is the same awkwardness the poor guy in a rich group may feel. The rest of the group talks of going to GenCon as if it were trivial (because it is to them). The poor guy will feel left out, because he can't afford to go, and doesn't want to feel like a charity case.
There are plenty of good examples where a mixed group has value. You don't want to get stuck in group think, though I suspect that happens more when there's pressure to conform. And I'm not talking about having cookie-cutter friends. Since everybody's different, you're not really going to have that. I'm simply talking about building a group of friends who have enough in common, that the differences add value, not subtract. The best commonality is that they don't exhibit those defects I talk above.
Side Career Advice:If you want to be successfull, have successful friends. It's not about sucking up, it's about having connections, habits, and ideas rub off on you.
I certainly don't condone the pretty girl with ugly friends technique, just so she'll look prettier. Or the join the popular group, just to belong. That's not being true to yourself. It's really about surrounding yourself with happy, successful people, not losers who don't achieve anything, or bring you down to their level.
Total Comments 2
Comments
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Hey, losers are a very relaxed and carefree bunch to hang out with! Some of my fondest memories were made with my most "losery", no-car, decrepit-bike, we'll-go-to-gencon-someday bunch of pals.Posted 19th December 2008 at 04:25 PM by dammitbiscuit
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were they truly losers, or simply at a slumpy point in their life (like poor kids)?
The real test is, where are they now? The true losers haven't gone anywhere, and are still struggling through life. That's not the same as being carefree, and happy with what you got.Posted 25th December 2008 at 03:23 AM by Janx
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