Zen and the art of Monster Design, part 1
Posted 15th November 2008 at 04:34 AM by Radiating Gnome
I've been posing in some of the forums a bit more lately that in the past, and it's gotten me thinking about some 4e stuff, especially some concepts about monster design, encounter building, and writing a good adventure.
There is only one "rule" that really matters once you sit down at the game table. Your players need to have fun. In a perfect world, you'll have fun too, but I'm betting that's not really a problem for you.
There are some 3rd edition mindsets that are very difficult to break -- the idea, for example, that we build monsters by digging through a variety of books to look for a base creater, apply some templates from some other books, maybe even a few levels of a class or two, and after a few pages of math and notes, you've got a finished creature that you think will be fun and interesting for your group.
And that's great -- and there are people like Blackdirge whose work in that vein I can only admire from the cheap seats -- there's a ton of room for imagination and creativity there, and I've always been impressed with what people do along those lines.
4e, though, has a different philosophy. There are some templates, but for the most part I don't like them very much. I've come to that opinion the hard way -- using them a lot in my home game. I find I'm happiest and most successful when I let all of that go and embrace the Zen of Monster Design.
Some ideas to keep in mind -
There are no "rules" you need to follow to keep your opponents "fair" for the PCs. I mean, if you're actually building something from scratch, I'd make sure you're sticking to the ballpark stats laid out in the DMG -- there's a pretty strong math base to the game, after all, and that'll help you stay out of trouble. BUT other than that, forget about building your monsters "by the book". Just sit back, think about what would be cool and interesting and fit the theme, and then just write it down. If you need to model a power based on something in the PHB or MM -- something another creature does that's similar -- just swipe it. No harm done.
In a lot of cases, though, it's easy to find a creature that already exists that just needs a little rewrite to work for your needs. Usually it's just a matter of writing some new flavor text, rename some powers and change some damage types, and you're good to go.
A couple of quick examples:
Use Elites Sparingly
Another hit from the 'learned this one the hard way' files. Look at what you get, in most cases, when you take a given creature and make it elite -- you give it nearly double it's hit points, a bonus on saving throws, and maybe a few cool new powers to go with it -- but in most cases its existing powers don't hit any more often or any better.
So, the primary thing that an Elite has over a normal monster is that it's going to be around a whole lot longer.
And, in your XP budget, that Elite cost the same as two of the base monsters.
There's a rough equivalence here -- you trade two actions a round for one action in twice as many rounds, roughly.
If you're using a lot of elites, you may be finding that your players are breezing through fights that have XP budgets that should be too high for them.
If you look at the economy of actions, you can see what you're doing to yourself.
Take a sample party of 6 PCs, facing off against an encounter of 6 NPCS. Each round, each "team" gets the same number of actions (6 standard attack actions, roughly).
If that party faces an encounter consisting of 3 elites, each of those elites only gets 1 action per round for a total of 3 to the party's six standard actions.
To keep the example simple, lets assume the PCs can take out one normal monster per round. Both fights will last 6 rounds, but over the course of the 6 rounds, the PCs will be subject to 21 ( 6!, or 6+5+4+3+2+1) actions from the normal monsters and 12 (2x3!, or 3+3+2+2+1+!) actions from the Elites.
That's a HUGE difference in effectiveness. If you are using elites a lot and your players are plowing through your encounters like gamers at a pizza buffet, start pitting them against normals and see what happens. Throw in some minions for spice.
There's a whole lot more to say about "Zen and the art of Monster Design", but I think that's just going to have to become a series for me. Time to fade away . . .
There is only one "rule" that really matters once you sit down at the game table. Your players need to have fun. In a perfect world, you'll have fun too, but I'm betting that's not really a problem for you.
There are some 3rd edition mindsets that are very difficult to break -- the idea, for example, that we build monsters by digging through a variety of books to look for a base creater, apply some templates from some other books, maybe even a few levels of a class or two, and after a few pages of math and notes, you've got a finished creature that you think will be fun and interesting for your group.
And that's great -- and there are people like Blackdirge whose work in that vein I can only admire from the cheap seats -- there's a ton of room for imagination and creativity there, and I've always been impressed with what people do along those lines.
4e, though, has a different philosophy. There are some templates, but for the most part I don't like them very much. I've come to that opinion the hard way -- using them a lot in my home game. I find I'm happiest and most successful when I let all of that go and embrace the Zen of Monster Design.
Some ideas to keep in mind -
There are no "rules" you need to follow to keep your opponents "fair" for the PCs. I mean, if you're actually building something from scratch, I'd make sure you're sticking to the ballpark stats laid out in the DMG -- there's a pretty strong math base to the game, after all, and that'll help you stay out of trouble. BUT other than that, forget about building your monsters "by the book". Just sit back, think about what would be cool and interesting and fit the theme, and then just write it down. If you need to model a power based on something in the PHB or MM -- something another creature does that's similar -- just swipe it. No harm done.
In a lot of cases, though, it's easy to find a creature that already exists that just needs a little rewrite to work for your needs. Usually it's just a matter of writing some new flavor text, rename some powers and change some damage types, and you're good to go.
A couple of quick examples:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Use Elites Sparingly
Another hit from the 'learned this one the hard way' files. Look at what you get, in most cases, when you take a given creature and make it elite -- you give it nearly double it's hit points, a bonus on saving throws, and maybe a few cool new powers to go with it -- but in most cases its existing powers don't hit any more often or any better.
So, the primary thing that an Elite has over a normal monster is that it's going to be around a whole lot longer.
And, in your XP budget, that Elite cost the same as two of the base monsters.
There's a rough equivalence here -- you trade two actions a round for one action in twice as many rounds, roughly.
If you're using a lot of elites, you may be finding that your players are breezing through fights that have XP budgets that should be too high for them.
If you look at the economy of actions, you can see what you're doing to yourself.
Take a sample party of 6 PCs, facing off against an encounter of 6 NPCS. Each round, each "team" gets the same number of actions (6 standard attack actions, roughly).
If that party faces an encounter consisting of 3 elites, each of those elites only gets 1 action per round for a total of 3 to the party's six standard actions.
To keep the example simple, lets assume the PCs can take out one normal monster per round. Both fights will last 6 rounds, but over the course of the 6 rounds, the PCs will be subject to 21 ( 6!, or 6+5+4+3+2+1) actions from the normal monsters and 12 (2x3!, or 3+3+2+2+1+!) actions from the Elites.
That's a HUGE difference in effectiveness. If you are using elites a lot and your players are plowing through your encounters like gamers at a pizza buffet, start pitting them against normals and see what happens. Throw in some minions for spice.
There's a whole lot more to say about "Zen and the art of Monster Design", but I think that's just going to have to become a series for me. Time to fade away . . .
Total Comments 8
Comments
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In another thread, where I point out what I was thinking here about Elites, it was pointed out to me by -Avalon- that most/many elites get counterattack options which will bring the number of attacks up to the same number as an equivalent party of normals . . . especially when you add extra actions for action points.
How Embarrassing.
However, that's only true some of the time -- many of the templates that will make an existing creature elite don't include counterattack abilities, although there are certainly some other similar abilities options . . . . a quick inventory . . .
Battle Champion: No counter, but allies do more damage when flanking.
Bodyguard: Can attack marked targets that attack that do not include the bodyguard
Death Knight: No counters or free attacks
Death Master: No counter, but can summon/revive dead pals
Demagogue: No counters or free attacks.
Demonic Acolyte: No counter or free attacks
Devastator: No counter or free attacks
Feyborn: No Counter or free attacks
Frost Adept: Has an automatic counter to melee attacks that slows the attacker but does no damage.
Lich: Has an aura that amounts to the potential for a LOT of free damage if anyone gets close.
Mummy Champion: No counters or free attacks
Mummy Lord: Has a special effect when it's destroyed that inflicts everyone with disease (booooooring)
Savage Beserker: has Savage Rebuke, the king of all counterattacks.
Scion of Flame: automatic damage as a counter for being hit
Shadowborn Stalker: No counter or free attacks
Vampire Lord: his gaze attack is a minor action, which dominates a target. This is also a pretty powerful source of extra actions.
Class Templates: None of them get any sort of counter or free action associated with the template.
So ... by my math ... the Bodyguard, the the frost adept, the lich, the savage beserker, the scion of flame, and the vampire lord have powers or abilities associated with the template that grant them extra attacks in some situations. That's 6 out of 16 theme templates and 8 class templates -- 6 out of 24 total.
That's far from the whole story on these templates -- most of them are VERY cool and have some great utility . . . but from the point of view of a simple economy of actions, most templates actually make the opponent less effective than two similar normal creatures would be.Posted 15th November 2008 at 06:28 PM by Radiating Gnome
Updated 2nd April 2009 at 01:38 PM by Radiating Gnome - Adding the Ranger or Swordmage class templates to a monster (is the re a Swordmage template? if not, it's easy to make one) would give some immediate reaction and interrupt options to a monster.
But the other way an elite could do be twice as effective as two normals is to do twice as much damage per hit. The elites in the example would then be dishing out the equivalent damage of 24 attacks, which is in line with the normal monster's 21. Granted, most of the DMG templates don't succeed great here, either, but adding the Rogue or ranger templates is like adding +1d6 or +2d6 damage to each attack, almost. (I'd have to check the functional templates to see any added damage.)Posted 15th November 2008 at 07:43 PM by Mr. Teapot - Yeah, you're right . .. Ranger or Rogue could bump up the damage a bit, given power choices and their hunter's quarry/sneak attack damage bumps . . . but that still leaves the majority of the templates not making a dramatic increase in damage output -- which is fair, that's not what those templates are trying to do.
I dunno. I still think that elites are best used rarely and for flavor purposes. Certainly there are a few templates that, in combination with the right base creature, can make a real powerhouse, but those are more exceptions than the rule, and I think that indicates that the templates aren't really intended to be used just to make sherman tank monsters (although they can be) but for a much wider variety of flavor reasons.Posted 16th November 2008 at 02:56 AM by Radiating Gnome -
Awesome article! As someone who is always trying to perfect my own monster design process, I love reading about how others approach the subject.
As for elites, I find that elites are simply most effect when paired with standard monsters. I don't think either should almost ever be used exclusively (in my opinion, just about every fight should have a centerpiece or rough target/s of some sort). This makes calculating efficiency much harder, but from DMing many hundreds of hours of 4e, I find that when players are faced with variety they are more focused on the challenge at had, where if they're faced with uniformity they're more likely to analyze the situation and remove themselves from the immersion.
I think the Monster Manual is very liberal in what it calls elites. I hate to sound like I'm plugging a product, but I'm about to release a module (free preview available on the website) that has about 8 monsters, and I only made the named, unique monster/characters elites. Writing standard monsters allows people to customize as they wish, applying templates or adjusting levels with ease. The more focus designers put on standard monsters the better, IMO.
What I'm most curious about, however, is your stand on solos, of which there are very few.
Keep writing!
Jack Smith IV
Poison Ivy PressPosted 18th November 2008 at 12:05 AM by JackSmithIV -
Hey, nice piece. I too design a lot of monsters. I like to write up a variety of the different humanoids too. I really like the goblinoids in the MM, but find there are too few gnolls for eg. In fact I own MANY gnoll minis with battle axes & yet I don;t think any in the MM use them. I have written up several new gnolls.
Although I did an elite, it was the minions I really wanted. There were none. I use elites as centrepieces/leaders only. I certainly use more minions. A. To use more minis (and it looks cool). B. To have those area damaging controllers feel wanted.
Thanks for your thoughts. Nicely put and I will certainly look forward to more on monster design. This is one area I am keeping my ears open to, as I am enjoying this aspect of 4E a lot.
Cheers, CPosted 18th November 2008 at 01:51 AM by Connorsrpg - The elite templates may well be one of the things that didn't get enough attention or were designed poorly. I'm looking at the stealth rules, skill challenge rules, and DC tables in the DMG. I feel the Monster Manual was designed pretty well, and all the elites I've used from there (most notably the Ettin and the Shambling Mound) do just fine at keeping up with the Joneses. I've never used a DMG template, but I imagine comparing the end result to an elite monster will give you an idea as to what improvements are needed.Posted 6th December 2008 at 03:39 AM by dammitbiscuit
- You know . . . I don't really like saying that anything in the game is poorly designed -- the math behind the game is so strong, so much of the design is so very very cool, and the philosophical underpinnings of a lot of the game really work for me -- so I don't want to be in the habit of saying anything is poorly done. Rather, I'd say that the elite templates don't serve the purpose a lot of us are used to using templates for -- and that's creating a little dissonance and expectation failure for us.
I mean, in the old edition, if you wanted to make a demon bear, you would apply the fiendish template to a bear. In this edition, though, that would be a mistake -- you could apply a template to the bear, sure, but you wouldn't get what you were trying to get out of the template. Rather than getting a demon bear, you'd get this everlasting gobstopper of a demon bear, one that soaks up way to much of your XP budget and takes too long to go down in a fight. What you should do instead -- and what the 4e philosophy is asking us to do -- is to just take the bear, rewrite the description so it sounds demony, and then give it a little gameplay demonness -- a bite that does fire damage, maybe a little breath weapon stolen from the dragonborn, etc. Just stick it on.
If you're looking at templates as a recipe book, you've missed the point -- the whole monster manual is your recipe book. And so is the players handbook and that episode of Charmed that you love even though you'll never admit to your friends that you've even watched a single episode.
So . . . I think that's the idea I'm trying to get to with the elite stuff (and, please, understand that I'm writing this comment weeks after this blog post and the other conversation -- it's entirely possible that I'm contradicting things I've said myself just a few scroll spins up the page . . . I've slept since then, no guarantees my ideas stay the same from day to day . . . ) is that these templates don't do what we expect them to do because of the name -- they serve a purpose, and do what they're supposed to do, but they don't do what I was trying to do with them, which was use them like 3.5 templates.Posted 9th December 2008 at 03:13 AM by Radiating Gnome - I am with you on the last post RG
I agree totally. There has been a lot said about mining other monsters for replacement powers, but have done what you mention too - USed the PHBs and Ari's Advanced Player's Guide. Heaps of powers there suit monsters , esp humanoids.
My gnolls certainly got some Savage Warrior treatment from Adv PG.
CPosted 2nd April 2009 at 04:20 AM by Connorsrpg
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