Faster-Paced Initiative

[EditorBFG]

This is my take on a faster-paced system for initiative. I'm not happy with it yet, but I think it is a step in the right direction.

http://gameslab.wikidot.com/local--files/start/Segment-Based_Initiative.rtf

Please, share any criticisms and observations. Thank you.

 

[Yair]

Why is normal initiative taken on the first round? Why not arrange the segment que and then flow with it?

 

[EditorBFG]

Why is normal initiative taken on the first round? Why not arrange the segment que and then flow with it?

An act of cowardice on my part, I suppose.

I noticed that similar systems people have come up with on these boards make a lot of feats and other pre-existing rules not useful, so I was trying to do something that drops seamlessly into the RAW. I think I was allowing for various things that might happen the first round of combat, in an attempt to not upset the applecart.

But you have a point. This is probably the first thing that needs to change. What else?

 

[Kmart Kommando]

how is that faster than round robin?

we just write down everyone's names and the NPCs 1 to whatever on 3x5 cards and flip through then in order of initiative. goes pretty quick, and after a round or 2, everyone knows where they are, or the initiative person says who's next, and who is after that, so everyone knows when their turn is coming.

 

[EditorBFG]

Your 3x5 card technique sounds like a good fix for normal d20 initiative. I do find tracking initiative for a large number of people to be a drag sometimes, but it seems like you have a work around.

Part of the the idea is for characters who do something less fun than fighting-- like just moving-- in their turn to get back to participating faster. So if the big fighter with a battleaxe and 3 iterative attacks takes a full action to use all those attacks on Segment 2, then the rogue moves on segments 3,4, and 5 because the main bad guy is escaping across the courtyard, he still gets his one knife attack in on segment 6 before the big fighter gets to roll his 3 attacks. (The example also illustrates that the system rewards smaller weapons a bit without getting into all the nonsense of 2nd Edition speed factors, making high damage weapons less of a no-brainer choice.)

Admittedly, the faster pace may just be the appearance of speedier combat in the minds of the players. Because I can take half my move-- as well as free, immediate, ro swift actions-- on every segment when I am not in a Delay (and immediate actions even during a Delay), it creates the impression of a more fluid battlefield in my imagination. But since this is role-playing, what people see in their minds is important and affects how much fun they have.

Like I said, your card thing makes good sense. The visual aid I imagine for this system is that the GM could draw up a circle, divide it into six pieces (like a Trivial Pursuit piece), then place a counter for each participant on the segment they participate in. Then, each time they act, he just moves the counter x number of segments around to show when the character can act again, and continues clockwise continuously.

 

[Kmart Kommando]

I C, like the old Shadowrun initiative worked.

 

[EditorBFG]

IIRC, yes. This is modeled on how Initiative is run in a few non-d20 games-- Scion being the latest.

 

[ValhallaGH]

I'm a fan of the original Deadlands style myself.
To translate it into d20:
1) have everyone roll initiative at the beginning of each round.
2) each player draws cards from a 52 card deck, (Initiative roll / 5) +1 cards.
3) DM draws cards for the badguys from his own deck. Either roll like the PCs do or just give one or two cards for each group of mooks / each named NPC.
4) count down through the deck, Ace, King, Queen, etc, until all cards have been played. Sort ties by suit (Spade, Heart, Diamond, Club). DM and PC ties are simultaneous.
5) once all cards have been used, go back to step 1.

Anyone that wants to Delay or Ready can hold their card until they choose to use it. They can make an opposed Dex check to interrupt another character's actions, if that's when they want to go.

The interesting thing about this system is that it allows for a great deal of variance in action order, planning and so fourth. Also, it allows you to (fairly) remove iterative attacks. Just assign a speed rating (i.e. Number of cards) to all actions and you're ready to go.
One other effect is that you no longer have to track initiative numbers. Just call out action cards, no remembering or skipping (due to AoO or Ready) to worry about.

 

[noretoc]

Just a personal opinion, but this seems like it would be longer than normal initiative. A lot more to keep track of.

 

[SuedodeuS]

This certainly does leave a lot more to keep track of, but it's also rather reminiscent of Final Fantasy Tactics, which is always a good thing. That said, this would probably be easier to manage on an electronic game than a paper and pencil game, since the computer could keep track of all the rules and the like more quickly and efficiently than the DM and players. The pie wedge is an excellent idea for a visual model and would probably alleviate this problem.
[addendum: It might be a good idea to have a multi-tiered pie chart here. Basically, have a large circle divided into 6 wedges, then draw another circle or two inside. The wedges closest to the center represent the current round, the blocks just outside the next round, and so on. You could represent characters/effects with game pieces, extra miniatures, or just scrap pieces of paper with symbols or names drawn on them. Each time a round ends, scoot the pieces closer inside.]

ValhallaGH, I too thought that the card system of Deadlands was rather nice, but in my experience it's a lot easier to stack cards than cheat to roll high (ignoring the possibility of weighted dice). One of the other players in the one Deadlands campaign I was in knew how to stack cards, and he's the one that shuffled them each time. I believe my character managed to make a grand total of 3 actions in the 5 sessions we played, and the third player managed 2. This issue can be alleviated by the DM doing the shuffling, but there's still one issue. Due to the number of actions, most encounters won't last much longer than one round with a card system (or at least none of them did in the Deadlands campaign), meaning that one bad initiative roll can screw your character for the entire combat. A player with modestly bad luck, and/or with a low init character, can end up feeling rather left out while the rest of the party takes all of their actions and he's stuck holding the 5 of clubs.

[edit: I forgot to mention this when I first posted (or, rather, I had only taken a cursory look at the .rtf), but I have some confusion as to what needs to be done under certain situations. How do you resolve it when two characters are in the same segment (and if silmultaneous action occurs, how do you resolve this?)? Also, the .rtf implies that, when taking a full attack, the fighter has to wait several segments before he's able to get off his attacks. Personally, I'd have the full attack take place all immediately - it takes away a little from realism, but it prevents the target from cheating and taking a 5-foot step away to avoid the pummeling.
Also, I was curious about the weapon delay. Does it only come into effect when the weapon is used, or is it always in effect? For example, take a rogue with a dagger and a fighter with a greatsword. Obviously, if they both attack in the same segment, the rogue will go again 3 segments before the fighter. If, however, they each take a half-move in the same segment, would they both be able to take another action the next segment, or would the fighter have to wait 3 segments longer? If it's the latter case, this seems to unbalance things greatly in favor of the characters using light weapons.]