Proposal -- YAFDHR (Yet Another Falling Damage House Rule)

Jeff Wilder

First Post
I'm interested in comments on the below. Please don't bother with comments like, "Meh, it's simpler to use hit points, and who cares about realism anyway?" Obviously, I care, to some extent. I'm more interested in comments on whether the mechanics seem sound and represent what I intend for them to represent. I'm also interested in comments on the practical effect such changes would have in a game that had been using the 10'/1d6 rule.

House Rule Proposal -- Falling and Drowning Damage

D&D 3E introduced a brilliant concept into the game: ability damage. The most notable examples of its use are in poisons, diseases, and the damage of some undead, but it crops up occasionally in other places. The intention is that ability damage represents a form of "absolute" damage that the abstraction of hit points can't represent. For example, no matter how many hit points a powerful barbarian may have, he can be felled by deathblade poison that makes it into his bloodstream just as easily (or at least very nearly as easily) as a hardy commoner.

Ability damage effects typically allow some way to avoid the damage completely, but if that avoidance fails, the damage takes full effect. Poison and diseases have saves (in addition to circumstantial ways to avoid them). Undead must typically hit with an attack, and there is often a save as well.

3E missed the boat, however, and didn't use ability damage to its full potential. It can be expanded to cover any situations in which a PC's number of hit points isn't actually relevant to the deadliness of the effect, because the threat -- once it manifests -- cannot be avoided or mitigated by the character's skill at avoiding or absorbing abstract damage. Two areas in which ability damage -- specifically, Constitution damage -- should have been used are drowning (suffocation) and falling.

For drowning, 3E uses a subsystem that is seen in no other place. In the first round of effect, the PC drops to 0 hit points. In the second round, she drops to -1 hit points (dying), and in the third round she dies. Note that this is another way to simulate "absolute" damage to a PC, and it's very strange that 3E used it instead of ability damage.

For falling, 3E simply uses hit points, which leads to ridiculous results. The damage caps out at 20d6 (a 200 foot fall!), which is an average of 70 hit points damage and a max of 120. A high level character can easily and routinely survive falls from 1000 feet, while a commoner will usually die from a fall of 20 feet. Hit points are meant to represent abstract skill and toughness. Skill and toughness will not help someone survive a 200-foot fall (though they may very well help avoid it).

New rules:

Drowning: Once the PC is suffocating (after failing the Constitution check to continue holding her breath), she takes 1d6 Constitution damage per round. If any of this damage remains at the end of the round it is taken, the PC becomes unconscious.

Falling: For each 10 feet fallen, the PC takes 1d6-2 Constitution damage. For each size category smaller than Medium, the damage is one point less per 10 feet, to a minimum of 1d6-4 damage. For each size category larger than Medium, the damage is 1 point higher, to a maximum of 1d6+2 per 10 feet. Tumble and Jump can be used as normal to lessen the effective falling distance. For simplicity's sake, the maximum effective damage is 20d6 (plus modifiers). Finally, a Fortitude or Reflex save (DC equal to half the distance fallen) may be made to leave the PC with 1 Constitution point, and/or (if the PC had hit points remaining before impact) 0 hit points.
 
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They are both functional and realistic and both are much more lethal.
The drowning damage I will assume is temporary unless they die or gain access to air.
The falling damage seems a bit "clunky" to me, but it is understood easily enough. Perhaps you would consider keeping the 1d6/10' fallen but also add 1 or 2 points of Con damage per 10' as well...possibly with a Fortitude save for half on the Con damage.
So if someone fell 60' they would take 6d6 hps of damage plus 12 points of Con damage with a Fort save to reduce the Con damage to 6 (seems a little less "clunky" anyway).
 

what i miss in your proposal is your goal(s).

I understand you want to remove the level-dependency, but do you want to make it possible for characters to die from falling 30 foot?

If so, I think you have succeeded.

of course, the saving throw will still make it possible to survive 1000' falls, since a natural 20 will always save them, and higher level characters will have a higher chance to make the saving throw for higher falls, but the difference will probably be 20'.
 

This definitely makes things grittier and more lethal. I like it! :devil:

It's feels similar to the Wounds/Vitality variant, which uses the Wounds damage track (generally equal to CON) to account for "real" damage.

I'm working on a system similar to yours based on W/V (though rather complex, unfortunately :erm:) to account for various damage types. In it, falling deals Nd6 damage to Vitality, and N to Wounds. For example, a fall that does 10d6 vitality damage, will also (potentially) do 10 damage to Wounds - enough to significantly injure anyone, whether a commoner or a hero.

I haven't thought about drowning yet, but your suggestion has me pondering now...
 

They are both functional and realistic and both are much more lethal.
Actually, the drowning rules are significantly less lethal. In RAW, a PC dies in three rounds, automatically. In my rules, the PC can survive longer, though someone with an average CON will still die, on average, in three rounds.

The drowning damage I will assume is temporary unless they die or gain access to air.
That's not the intent, but ... should it be? I admit, all I know about drowning, I learned from "Baywatch." In TV and the movies, people drown and are fine immediatey thereafter, that's true. In RAW, the lost HP aren't temporary, though, and that's more what I was mirroring.

Perhaps you would consider keeping the 1d6/10' fallen but also add 1 or 2 points of Con damage per 10' as well...possibly with a Fortitude save for half on the Con damage.
Yeah, I actually considered that. I ultimately rejected it because it will lead to "guaranteed" deaths from much shorter falls. People do (very occasionally) survive long falls, and I wanted that reflected in the potential damage, not just in the saving throw.

FWIW, I agree about the slight clunkiness, but I don't really mind. Falling any serious distance is a fairly rare event in our games. (It's just that when it happens, the mechanics bug the crap out of me.)

what i miss in your proposal is your goal(s).
I woulda thought this line -- "[f]or falling, 3E simply uses hit points, which leads to ridiculous results" -- was a pretty good indication. I want something that models reality slightly better. I'm not looking for "perfect;" I'm just looking for "not ridiculous."

I understand you want to remove the level-dependency, but do you want to make it possible for characters to die from falling 30 foot?
"Possible"? Yes. It's very unlikely, though. The average CON damage per 10 feet is 1.67. Long falls are very likely to kill. Short falls may do little or nothing. ("Just twisted my ankle.")

of course, the saving throw will still make it possible to survive 1000' falls, since a natural 20 will always save them, and higher level characters will have a higher chance to make the saving throw for higher falls, but the difference will probably be 20'.
All of that is intentional, though I'm not sure what you mean by the last.
 

Very nice. Or, at the least, a nice start to things.

Down with dumb subsystems! :rant: ;) On that note, I prefer (something like, for instance) a scaling DC Fort save for stabilisation, *not* the standard system. Blech.
 

Drowning: Once the PC is suffocating (after failing the Constitution check to continue holding her breath), she takes 1d6 Constitution damage per round. If any of this damage remains at the end of the round it is taken, the PC becomes unconscious.
I LIKE that! I wish I'd thought of it - it's so intuitive, and so much better than the crap system we've got now. The only problem I can see is that if you're taking Con damage, the Con save will become harder and harder to make... of course, once you start suffocating, it's harder and harder to get any air... :devil: I am yoinking this rule.

Falling: For each 10 feet fallen, the PC takes 1d6-2 Constitution damage. For each size category smaller than Medium, the damage is one point less per 10 feet, to a minimum of 1d6-4 damage. For each size category larger than Medium, the damage is 1 point higher, to a maximum of 1d6+2 per 10 feet. Tumble and Jump can be used as normal to lessen the effective falling distance. For simplicity's sake, the maximum effective damage is 20d6 (plus modifiers). Finally, a Fortitude or Reflex save (DC equal to half the distance fallen) may be made to leave the PC with 1 Constitution point, and/or (if the PC had hit points remaining before impact) 0 hit points.
I'm not sure about this one. I mean, I think you're spot on about how stupid the existing system is; I have no problems with your idea per se, but it just seems a little odd - I can't put a finger on it. I'm not sure that I'd be applying ability damage for a fall, but OTOH, nothing simulates massive physical trauma better than Con damage.
 

The only problem I can see is that if you're taking Con damage, the Con save will become harder and harder to make
Actually, once you fail the CON check, there're no more CON checks to make ... you're suffocating/drowning. (The CON check is to continue holding your breath. Once you stop holding your breath, you're probably screwed.)

OTOH, nothing simulates massive physical trauma better than Con damage.
That's the idea. That and the fact that falling damage shouldn't use HP, since it's something that affects similar bodies similarly, no matter how skilled they are.

Thanks for the comments, everyone.
 

All of that is intentional, though I'm not sure what you mean by the last.

I meant that the difference in fortitude saving throw between a first and 20th lvl character is approximately 10, leading to a made saving throw with the same roll (say, 19) saving against a height of respectively 42' (counting a +2 from first lvl and no con or dex bonus) and 62' (counting a +12 from 20th lvl and no con or dex bonus).

Another issue that came to mind: in the standard rules, healing is used to remove the effects of the fall. The con damage either goes away by itself or needs to be healed using (lesser) restorations. Is that intentional?

I have to say, initially i thought your system was too harsh, but it kind of groes on you. I think I'm going to introduce it to my party....
 

I meant that the difference in fortitude saving throw between a first and 20th lvl character is approximately 10
Ah, I see.

Another issue that came to mind: in the standard rules, healing is used to remove the effects of the fall. The con damage either goes away by itself or needs to be healed using (lesser) restorations. Is that intentional?
Absolutely. (I even created a 1st-level cleric, druid, paladin, ranger spell modeled on lesser restoration that heals 1 point of CON damage (or has a 50 percent chance of healing 1 point of CON drain), for those little 10-foot "ankle twisters.") That's my issue with falling in the RAW: it does "D&D damage," which is great for a lot of things, but not for stuff like falling. Falling from a significant height does damage.

I have to say, initially i thought your system was too harsh, but it kind of groes on you. I think I'm going to introduce it to my party....
Please, please post here let me know how it goes. I am, frankly, a little surprised at the positive feedback, because a couple of my players shut me down cold when I just began discussing the problems I had with falling damage. I could play the "I'm the DM" card and install the system anyway, but it'd sure be nice to have some non-theoretical in-play feedback before I did it.
 

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