Binder issues?

[Thanee]

Havn't really looked into the new classes from the Tome of Magic yet, and it is often said, that they are less than perfectly balanced.

Are there any issues with the Binder specifically, one should look out for?

A player is looking into making a Binder character (maybe), so I guess it's time to figure out what they are all about.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Nifft]

They're a bit tactically inflexible -- it would be nice if they could unbind and rebind a few times each day.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Engilbrand]

Have you heard that they are too strong or too weak? I'm playing one right now. If I know what's coming up, I'll bind something specific. That doesn't necessarily mean that it will be great, though. In combat, 5 rounds is a long time. They should shouldn't last much longer than 5. I even went through one point where my character didn't bind at all for a few days just so that he wouldn't have the wrong thing bound. That left me open to some problems. My recommendation would be to let the guy make his Binder. Especially compared to a Cleric or Wizard, he'll be perfectly fine. I will say, though, that I absolutely love the bluff skill. I made a Binder with a good Intelligence, so I have a decent number of skills. My DM also decided to add 10 to a skill check on a natural 20. When you can convince people that you have no idea what they're talking about, at level 2, that's fun. "Where's that full plate you were just wearing?" "I don't know what you're talking about." **Natural 20= 38** "He has absolutely no idea what you're talking about." Binders are a lot of fun.

 

[Nail]

I've used a binder as a low-level NPC recently. It was interesting, and hard to make too powerful.

 

[Thanee]

Have you heard that they are too strong or too weak?

Neither, actually. Havn't heard a whole lot about Binders yet. Hence the question.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Andor]

"Where's that full plate you were just wearing?" "I don't know what you're talking about." **Natural 20= 38** "He has absolutely no idea what you're talking about." Binders are a lot of fun.

Could be worse, could be a totemist. "Didn't you used to have four arms and no tail?"

 

[Quidam]

Hellfire Warlock

I'm interested in reports from those who have played or analyzed the Binder, too. The Hellfire Warlock prestige class involves constitution damage which a level of Binder can significantly ameliorate.

 

[Graf]

CW (including Mouseferatu I think) holds binder to be flavorful, but weak.
The abilities just aren't that powerful and don't scale very well.

There are a few things you can do to help (Binder Phylactry; expel visage feat); but even then you've just got more flexibility not more power.

 

[Mouseferatu]

CW (including Mouseferatu I think) holds binder to be flavorful, but weak.
The abilities just aren't that powerful and don't scale very well.

There are a few things you can do to help (Binder Phylactry; expel visage feat); but even then you've just got more flexibility not more power.

Mmm, not exactly. I don't think binders are weak per se. Rather, I think their balance and abilities lend themselves to a support position, much like the bard. The binder can do a whole lot of things, but he's not best at anything. He can fill any niche, but he doesn't fill any single niche perfectly.

That doesn't particularly fit my playstyle, but for people who enjoy the "jack of all trades, master of none," it works just fine.

And it is, indeed, 31 flavors of nifty, conceptually.

 

[catsclaw227]

They're a bit tactically inflexible -- it would be nice if they could unbind and rebind a few times each day.

I made a couple of house rules that can accomodate this particular "weakness".

This is a standard Class ability gained at 2nd level.

Revise Pact (Ex)

Prerequisite: Soul Binding
Benefit: At 2nd level or higher, you can swap out a vestige for another, but doing so requires spending one of your Pact Augmentations. As you gain higher levels, the number of times you may do this increases as the number of Pact Augmentations you gain increase. You gain one additional pact revision at 5th, 10th, 16th and 20th level (to a maximum of five revisions at 20th level).

Revise Pact works just like Expel Vestige, but you must bind another vestige immediately after expelling the first vestige (i.e. you must draw the seal of the original vestige and succeed on a binding check to expel it, and then rebind another vestige at -10 on the binding check.) At the time you start binding the second vestige, you determine which Pact Augmentation you will sacrifice.

Then I revised Expel Vestige to allow expelling a vestige 2x per day.

Expel Vestige [General]

You can expel a vestige to which you are bound before the duration of its pact with you has expired.

Prerequisite: Soul Binding
Benefit: Twice per day you can attempt to expel a vestige without spending a Pact augmentation. To do so, you must draw its seal and go through the entire process of summoning it again. If you succeed on the new binding check, you expel the vestige before it would normally leave you, and you can summon a different one to replace it. Regardless of success or failure in expelling the vestige, you take a -10 penalty on your next binding check with any vestige, and apply the same penalty on your binding check the next time you summon the vestige you expelled.

This all added some flexibility, yet didn't really overpower the binder.