Alienist (from Complete Arcane) - worth it ?

[Grenouillebleue]

Is it really interesting for a conjurer to call pseudo-natural creatures instead of regular ones ?

From what I've read, the only thing you get with this creature template is free magic resistance (ok, so that's useful) and a single True Strike.

On the other hand, you lose the ability to call demons and devils, which are pretty powerful at high levels.

Is it a fair trade-off ? I don't have enough experience with DnD monsters to see whether that's useful or not.

 

[shilsen]

I think it's a worthwhile tradeoff. At any level, summoned monsters are usually there to provide extra targets for the enemies and run interference for the party. The True Strike which the alienist's summoned creatures get means that they automatically hit once (assuming you don't roll a 1, as the alienist in my group does surprisingly often on the TS attack), which does make a pretty substantial difference.

That being said, I've had an alienist PC throughout my Eberron campaign (currently at 12th), and I house-ruled it to allow the alienist to summon non-templated creatures too. That's never caused the least problem and I would recommend it. We also use the UA specialist wizard option, which lets the alienist (as a conjuration specialist) summon as a standard action, rather than with a 1 round casting time, and that's worked out very well too.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

Is it really interesting for a conjurer to call pseudo-natural creatures instead of regular ones ?

From what I've read, the only thing you get with this creature template is free magic resistance (ok, so that's useful) and a single True Strike.

On the other hand, you lose the ability to call demons and devils, which are pretty powerful at high levels.

Is it a fair trade-off ? I don't have enough experience with DnD monsters to see whether that's useful or not.

On the whole I would say, no it is not a fair trade off. However, balance this with some of the Alienist's extra abilities and I think things do eventually balance out. For me, playing an alienist is more about fun and the roleplaying aspects of the class. However, this being said, you cast a SMVII and get 5 Psuedonatural Stag Beetles running at the opposition, you're talking a premium amount of damage output that's pretty tough to avoid!

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Nifft]

It's a terrible power-down for a Summoning-based Wizard. You lose the flexibility to pick Outsiders and Elementals instead of flavored animals. The 3.0e Alienist who could add a template to Elementals and Outsiders may have been over the top, but there's gotta be a better fix than neutering his minion selection.

If you can get your DM to rule that you get to summon all the regular stuff (with or without the pseudonatural template), then it's fine.

Seriously, half the value of a Summon spell is getting a critter with its own spell-like abilities at your disposal.

-- N

 

[frankthedm]

It's a terrible power-down for a Summoning-based Wizard. You lose the flexibility to pick Outsiders and Elementals instead of flavored animals. The 3.0e Alienist who could add a template to Elementals and Outsiders may have been over the top, but there's gotta be a better fix than neutering his minion selection.

Actually, it makes perfect sense for the outer and inner planes to tell the alienist to ”drop dead”. The Alienist is betraying the multiverse by having dealings with the far realm, sanctions are definitely in order. That Pseudonatural template has some pretty good aspects too. SR 10+HD is notably better that the usually summon monsters and true strike means the first attack almost always hits. Their two energy resists, while sub-par, happen to apply to some no SR attack spells.

 

[Nifft]

Actually, it makes perfect sense for the outer and inner planes to tell the alienist to ”drop dead”. The Alienist is betraying the multiverse by having dealings with the far realm, sanctions are definitely in order.

Maybe. But my point is: if he's going to be a summoning specialist, he should be a better summoner than someone who's not.

If he can't summon real elementals or outsiders, and he can't summon pseudonatural elementals or outsiders, he's worse at his shtick than a regular wizard.

Terrible design nerf.

-- N

 

[PallidPatience]

I also hate the fact that he's the only PrC I can remember seeing that has to PAY for some of his abilities (outside of normal losses for choosing PrC over his base class). I mean, you get Toughness, but in exchange are socially impaired... And then you get Toughness again, but in exchange are socially crippled. That's certainly not worth the trade-off. Unless the DM doesn't use social skills, anyway.

 

[frankthedm]

Terrible design nerf.

IMHO the terrible design nerf was giving wizards weaker summons than druids. Sure the Summon monster spells give the creature some fancy resitances and DR that might matter, but IME most times a summon is worthwhile, the druid table is better. A whole fragging spell level better at that.

 

[PallidPatience]

I'd agree. There'd be no need to come up with damage spells for the conjurer if his conjurations were effective to begin with.

 

[frankthedm]

I also hate the fact that he's the only PrC I can remember seeing that has to PAY for some of his abilities (outside of normal losses for choosing PrC over his base class).

Frenzied berserker pays in his allies' blood. A spellcaster that skirts insanity while opening holes in the multiverse sounds kinda close to the FB on the cosmic scale.

I mean, you get Toughness, but in exchange are socially impaired... And then you get Toughness again, but in exchange are socially crippled. That's certainly not worth the trade-off. Unless the DM doesn't use social skills, anyway.

Or if you are the parties’ enemy! The alienist is really more of a foe than an ally. The fluff basically screams ‘This caster is a danger to all creation’. The class seems like a Bad Idea to take because is it supposed to be reserved for NPCs that are destined to End the World whether they realize it or not. The alienist is one of those classes that beg to be ‘put down’ for the benefit of the world at large.]