I've always been a fan of bomb-lobbers as PCs and NPCs, and I liked Cogline from Terry Brooks' Shanarra books. They're great for controlling battlespace and sowing confusion among your enemies.
I was wondering about some of the better Feat/Class/PrCl options for making one in 3.X.
Conditions:
1) I'm really looking for WotC only stuff- my DMs are fairly conservative. However, if there is a REALLY good 3PP option, let me know.
2) The PC should be Int and/or Wis based, and not divinely inspired- he knows how to make his grenades because he is a man of science and knowledge, not because he was told "______" by some divine being. This doesn't mean he can't be a man of faith and even some levels in a divinely oriented class, just not as his primary class.
3) Ideally, I want a mix of mundane and magical abilities. I don't want him to be completely screwed if he enters a low/no magic zone. Something more than just firebombs and tanglefoot bags would be ideal. (I've already thought about pepper bombs, FWIW).
Obviously, Alchemy is a must. I would think that some knowledge of poison and nature would also be key.
Since he's using grenades, he'll need to have a decent Dex.
I would think something like a sling, staff-sling, or even the curved basket attached to the hand to throw the ball in Jai Alai. Anyone know of stats for the latter 2 or anything similar?
Brew Potion seems like a natural, but according to the text in the SRD, the products of the feat must be consumed to be effective.
launch item (a cantrip!) + 10 alchemist fires in a sack = 10d6 of non-magical fire damage plus splash. Probably not the most cost-efficient way to blow stuff up, but could be handy in a tight spot and available at 1st level!
Edit: launch item is in the Spell Compendium.
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Last edited by Flatus Maximus; 31st March 2009 at 10:50 PM..
Reason: cited source
The Hulking Hurler prestige class from Complete Warrior includes the ability "Throw Anything" which could be helpful.
I gave an NPC stone giant the Hulking Hurler prestige class and the effects were awesome! (think of hurling the mine/bomb used at Helm's Deep in the Two Tower LOTR movie)
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Well I suspected there really is not much material in d20 fantasy for a grenade user. You have to reskin abilities, have your own DM work with you to make new material, borrow from D20 Modern or play around with the Necklace of Explosive Decapitation.
Well, does anyone know any RW explosive Chemistry tricks someone with 15th Century (max) alchemical knowledge might know? (Besides black powder, that is.)
Anything that could be made into a low-tech binary grenade (stored in a divided bottle so that the chemicals combine on impact)?
I mean, I know that you can do some nifty tricks with modern pharmacopia (like water purification tablets and certain disinfectants found in first aid kits), or that certain ultra pure chemicals combined with air or water can be explosive/caustic...but that's all beyond the typical FRPG tech level.
I'm talking about things like this recipe that dates back to Iron Age China (altered to eliminate proportions of ingredients):
Quote:
* straw and/or dry leaves
* bicarbonate of soda
* powdered sugar (must be powdered; granulated won't work. If you want to be really authentic, you could use honey diluted water)
* overcooked rice, mashed and boiled into a lumpy paste
* animal feces
* lemon juice
Mix the solid ingredients together in a large bowl. Under direct sunlight, stir them constantly for about 30 minutes, then add the lemon juice and stir for about 10 more minutes. Knead well, roll into small balls and set out in the sun to bake dry. There you have it, the ancient equivalent of plastique, which ignites with fire or sparks.
It doesn't even have to be explosives- anything that makes smoke, stenches, gases, solvents, glues, greases or the like that can be stored and delivered in a typical fantasy grenade would be of value!
If you can create a grenade that's an exotic weapon, a couple of quick dips into the Exotic Weapon Master PrC can give a couple of intersting options. First, Close Quarters Ranged Combat allows you to drow the AoO from throwing a grenade. Second, Ranged Disarm would allow you to literally blow an opponents weapon out of his hands. Finally, the Show Off ability lets you use your grenade to Intimidate opponents and make them shaken.
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I'm almost positive there's an official WotC prestige class based on grenade-like weapons. Includes abilities like extra damage with alchemist's fire and stuff like that. Dunno which book, though.
As an aside, any chance you could negotiate a called shot ("down the gullet!") rule with your DM?
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Forgot to mention: The Grenadier feat (PHB2) gives you +1 to both attack and damage rolls with splash weapons (no prereq). Not exactly sexy but maybe you can talk with your DM about a homebrew feat tree that grows out of this feat (increasing boni, larger areas, etc.)
Thunderstones look like another good option: Beat AC 5 (five!) to hit a given square (range increment = 20ft), then everyone within 10 ft makes a DC 15 Fort save or deafened (hence 20% failure chance on spells with verbal components) for 1 hour. If you miss your square, you probably still affect the intended target. This sounds like a fun option vs. casters and isn't way too good. Also, the PHB doesn't say whether or not thunderstones are single-use items, so, depending on your DM, you would only ever need a few of these.
I would think that if smokesticks exist, then one could craft a "smokesack" (= smoke bomb). As with alchemist fire, acid flasks, and tanglefoot bags, this will get expensive (the main problem with this otherwise cool concept IMHO).
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You could also create clay pot grenades with nasty non-explosive things in them - think oozes and so on. Toss a pot full of gray ooze at some one, and watch them squirm.
At least one 3PP book has grenades as a weapon (2d6 dmg, 5 ft blast, 10' range increment IIRC). The standard grenades types seems plausible in an alchemical world: fragmentary, smoke-bomb, filled with gases (like a stinking cloud, for example, or any of the fog spells depending on the skill of the crafter), etc
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As an aside, any chance you could negotiate a called shot ("down the gullet!") rule with your DM?
We generally allow called shots, but they're tough.
Also, good ideas, KC and FM!
I wonder...In D&D, how would you stat out mechanical/alchemical
1) Pepper bombs?
I've seen what happens when an institutional-sized bag of pepper opens up when its not supposed to (touring a spice company's factory), it isn't nice. Its not as bad as a direct dose of pepper spray, but it affects a bigger area.
That's why the mixers wear hazmat suits.
2) Flour bombs?
When flour gets dispersed into the air, it can behave like an explosive- that fact caused many flour mill explosions, and at least one near death experience on a movie set when the star pointed a prop, flour-filled fire extinguisher at an open flame... foooshWHOOOMP!
(Yes, I did watch a lot of MacGyver when I was younger...why do you ask?)
I wonder...In D&D, how would you stat out mechanical/alchemical
1) Pepper bombs?
DC 15 Fortitude save or dazed. I'd probably allow a save once per round until recovered, but you could also do something like a flat 1-4 rounds. Target one 5-foot square, or target an intersection to affect four squares, which allows +5 to the save.
Quote:
2) Flour bombs?
Enh. I really wouldn't allow explosive effects in my game. Alchemist's fire works fine to deal damage. I can't really see a way to make a "realistic" flour bomb effect that would also have a balanced GP cost, anyway.
__________________ Jeff Wilder, San Francisco Bay Area If your sig is longer than your posts, your sig is too
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Rogue could be an interesting contender, considering that his sneak attack applies on grenade weapons (but not the splash damage). The plus side is that it is a touch attack (and so makes up for his medium bab). Key challenge is consistently being able to deal SA damage at range though (probably want to keep a wand of greater invis/blink handy to UMD).
Well, Dungeonscape has rules for sacks of flour. They don't explode but they do single out invisible creatures.
What's the stance on gunpowder? The DMG has a small section on grenades and TNT you might be able to use. If so, then Dragon #321 has a whole article on guns in D&D which includes a grenade-launcher that lets you fire grenade-like weapons farther than you can throw them.
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