A Healing Belt allows any character wearing it to heal 4d8, once per day. It has some other options too, but for now, let's stick with 4d8 1/day. Of course, it can be used every day, forever. It costs 750 gp.
A potion of Cure Serious Wounds, which offers roughly the same healing but only a one time use also costs 750 gp!
A wand of Cure Serious Wounds can heal up to 50 times, but then it's used up forever. It can only be used by spellcasters or high UMD types. It costs 11,250 gp.
I think there is a disparity there that makes me uncomfortable. In addition, I can't see how -- following the Wondrous Item guidelines -- to make a Healing Belt cost 750 gp. The cheapest way I can think of is:
+2 to Heal skill = 400 gp as per "skill bonus" line on page 285 of DMG.
Cure Moderate* spell = 2160 gp as per "command word" line divided by "charges per day" line on page 285 of DMG
Total = 2560 gp.
Can anyone explain how -- using normal magic/crafting rules -- you could make a Healing Belt for 750 gp?
I've heard that at one point the "cost to make" a belt was listed as 1000 gp (more than the selling price). I would have expected it to be fixed in such a way as to increase the selling price. However, in my MIC, they fixed it by reducing the cost to make (down to 500 gp). This perplexes me. Help?
* I really think it should be a Cure Serious Wounds spell, to match the amount of hit points healed. That would double the price, roughly. However, the MIC says that the belt is powered by a Cure Moderate Wounds spell, and I'm trying to be generous and figure out how in the world to follow the rules and still get that low price, so Cure Moderate it is.
Well, I'm not sure where the healing belt first came from or if it's an MIC original. But I think the real idea is that the designers of MIC felt that the pricing guidelines in the DMG were too expensive. So they repriced things downwards, and that might make a lot of items look broken for the price. I don't know exactly how I feel about that philosophy; I guess I haven't played quite enough with enough different groups to tell. For fun, I'm slowly reworking magic items that didn't make it into the MIC, but I haven't had much time for it, and I vary on how to price things.
Didn't notice that about the price of the healing belt and the potion. Kind of a curious coincidence!
Healing belt only seems overpowering when you compared it with clearly overpriced items such as a potion of cure serious wounds (pitiful damage healed, and you provoke an AoO, so the damage you take likely offsets the hp healed). However, when you place it side by side with other more efficient modes of healing, it starts to pale in comparison.
In core, we have the wand of cure light wounds, which at 50 charges, heals on average 5.5*50, or 275hp. Or the wand of vigor, which takes somewhat longer, but can heal up to 550hp (twice that of a wand of CLW). Both cost just 750hp per wand. These are the yardsticks the belt should be compared with.
Before you start arguing that the wand will eventually be exhausted, while the belt will automatically recharge everyday, bear in mind that at 27hp/day, it will take 20 days before the healing belt starts breaking even with a wand of vigor. At 4 encounters a day (and 13.3 encounters to gain a level on average), your party will have gained 5 lvs at least before the belt of healing starts paying off. During which time you will likely have gained a lot more gold to purchase additional wands of vigor. And you can use the wands as often as you need healing. The belt is more limited (1/day), so it can only supplement your healing needs at most, not replace it.
The only time a belt of healing may be more useful is if you use it to "burst heal" during combat for 4d8 (when vigor would be too slow to make a difference, and the cleric is too far away) or use that 4d8 as a touch attack against undead (like incorporeal undead you have trouble hitting normally).
The belt is priced at 750gp because the designers believed that was a fair indicator of its usefulness. It deviates from the item creation guidelines because those have proven to be inaccurate when crafting certain items (and the healing belt is clearly one of them).
Last edited by Runestar; 12th April 2009 at 06:08 AM..
So, Runestar, if I follow your comment to the logical conclusion, you're saying that the Healing Belt can't be priced at 750 gp using the DMG magic item rules, because the MIC authors decided to bypass those rules as too limiting?
So, Runestar, if I follow your comment to the logical conclusion, you're saying that the Healing Belt can't be priced at 750 gp using the DMG magic item rules, because the MIC authors decided to bypass those rules as too limiting?
That would appear to be the case. The designers wanted to give the players a meaningful choice between the big six items, and other more utilitarian eq, and the only way they would ever opt for the latter were if they were priced more competitively (before, they would be too expensive if priced using DMG guidelines).
So they apparently just ad-hocced the priced based on what they felt would be appropriate. Which is just as well - the usefulness of these items are simply too variable to fall under the umbrella of a 1-size-fits-all formula.
Got it. I'm just going to house rule it out of my game. Thanks for the help!
What?!?!
That's the kind of DM-fiat that I absolutely loathe. Instead of fixing the "problem" (which arguably isn't if you see the analysis done above), just "ban it".
If you've done any kind of research at all into magic item creation you'd know full well that the game designers have said time and time again that magic items should be compared to existing magic items to determine the appropriate price. There is no hard and fast rule or formula of item creation.
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So, Runestar, if I follow your comment to the logical conclusion, you're saying that the Healing Belt can't be priced at 750 gp using the DMG magic item rules, because the MIC authors decided to bypass those rules as too limiting?
There are pricing guidelines for custom magic items in the DMG. There aren't any pricing rules for custom magic items in it.
Also, those guidelines allow you to make a pair of infintite charge use-activated gloves of True Strike for 1 (caster level) * 1 (spell level) * 2000 gp.
If the guidelines can be so ridiculously wrong in one direction, why can't they be wrong in the other direction?
That's the kind of DM-fiat that I absolutely loathe. Instead of fixing the "problem" (which arguably isn't if you see the analysis done above), just "ban it".
You know what'll make your head explode? I've DM-fiat'd tons of stuff, including a bunch of magic creation rules. Woah! My game must SUCK!
It's unheard of, I know. A DM thinks something is broken and doesn't allow it in the game. Crazy.
Nobody mentioned the fact that wand and potions don't take up an item slot. I haven't seen the belt overused when I DM or play, in fact I am the only one who has picked one up in my group.
So if you go by the DM pricing guide could I get a belt of healing made that is CLW wounds at will 1st level caster x 1st level spell x 2000 = 2000gp for an at will healing item.
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To answer the OP: IMHO, no, it's not broken. 4d8 once per day and takes up a body slot? Sure it's cheap and anyone can use it...once per day, but anything that helps prevent the 15-minute adventuring day is fine with me.
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Okay. This will serve as a lesson for me not to make auxiliary points, as my main point is then too easily dodged by only replying to my auxiliary point.
I would say that the healing belt is not particularly broken as long as you only have one of them.
It is true that it costs less than comparable healing items from the core rules. The rejoinder that comparable healing items from the core rules are over-priced is right on target. Nobody bought wands of cure critical wounds. People would occasionally buy potions of cure serious wounds, but only because those potions were the only game in town when it came to in-combat healing. You couldn't get anything more powerful that was usable without the ability to cast spells. Of course, past level 5 or 6, it was inadequate and even before then it was too expensive to be used regularly.
The problem with the healing belt (and other x/day items from the MIC such as counterstrike bracers or the ring of thunderclaps) is that nothing other than shame at being so cheesy prevented you from making or buying multiples and just changing belts when you ran out of charges. That is the aspect of the belt that might possibly be broken (but you still need to consider the 10 belts of healing over the course of a long campaign before they become more efficient than ten wands of cure light wounds (or faith healing) or ten wands of lesser vigor and they put all of the costs of the effiency up front rather than spreading it out over the course of several levels as multiple wands would do). So, even if you deliberately abuse them, I'm not convinced that they're broken. (Other items like counterstrike bracers, on the other hand, are broken if they are abused in that manner).
This will serve as a lesson for me not to make auxiliary points, as my main point is then too easily dodged by only replying to my auxiliary point.
Dodged? Like you're a prosecutor and I'm on trial? I think you might have a misconception about what's happening here. This is a game and I do it to have fun, not to defend myself.
I think I might not want to address your point simply to disabuse you of the notion that this is a court room.
You asked a question and you got a lot of advice that you're choosing to ignore and just "ban" the spell instead. That's your choice. I know what I think of it.
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Last edited by Ogrork the Mighty; 13th April 2009 at 12:06 AM..
I don't understand you. First of all, in what world does asking for advice mean you're slavishly chained to the responses you get? What if the responses are mutually exclusive? And again, this is a game. Why do I have to have fun exactly the way you dictate? Why does my house rule = personal affront to you? Why are you turning this into disparaging comments? What does that accomplish?
I didn't jump down your throat because you posted that the Combust spell is "horribly overpowered" so I'm not sure why I am not allowed to have the same discernment.
although i had a similar initial reaction, i just modified it and it's actually greatly contributed to game play.
1. bumped price to 1000 gp even.
2. healing is use-activated and self only; no pseudo lay-on-hands.
3. belt must be worn continously for 24 hours before any, or it won't function*.
i think if you at least try the above instead of outright banning it, you'll find that it makes a wonderful addition to the game. arguably, the ones who'd want it the most - melee-types, will have to debate between this or a strength-boosting girdle. most of the blaster and healer types find it interesting, but ironically don't flock to it as fast as you'd think.
*i've added this addendum to all of the "3 charge" items from the MIC, to balance them and prevent people from hoarding belts and charms and such.
Nobody mentioned the fact that wand and potions don't take up an item slot. I haven't seen the belt overused when I DM or play, in fact I am the only one who has picked one up in my group.
There is nothing stopping you from storing the belt in your backpack, and wearing it only when you want the healing (though this will make it viable only outside of combat). At low lvs, there aren't really any other belts you could be wearing anyways (belt of str shouldn't come until lv8+). At higher lvs, there are easily better belts (belt of battle), and the MIC has rules for adding stat boosters to your existing eq at 1xcost (rather than 1.5cost).
I am not quite sure what is so cheesy about getting multiple belts at higher lvs though. 4d8 is negligible at higher lvs (confining its use to 6d8 outside of fights) As I have demonstrated, nothing beats a wand of vigor (550hp for 750gp, you just don't get any more efficient than that).
For fun, I'm slowly reworking magic items that didn't make it into the MIC, but I haven't had much time for it, and I vary on how to price things.
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