Running a dragon vs a high level party

[NewJeffCT]

After finishing off the blackguard, the party will next have to face a powerful blue dragon as they attempt to return the lost artifact to its resting place...

The party is Level 15 and the dragon will be Very Old/Huge variety that is CR:19... though, I may bump it up to the Gargantuan CR:21 one.

If there is no surprise, what are some good tactics for the dragon? I assume breath weapon on a many PCs as possible the first round. What else would it do? I was going to give it the "Hover" feat so it could do a full attack from the air... any other ideas?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Scintillating Scales, level 2 SpC spell, to add its natural armor to touch AC (makes it a deflection bonus, iirc).

It may have a nasty full attack, but I'd save that for defensive use if the party fighter approaches it first or something. Otherwise, try to keep it flying and out of reach for as long as possible, bombarding the party wil breath weapon and spells until it's run out of higher level slots or the party has engaged it up close. Definitely consider buff spells to extend it's combat lifetime, like blur/blink/displacement. An extended Dispel Magic (or even better, Arcane Turmoil from C.Mage, which is a level lower) targeted on the weapons of those who aren't casters means those fighters either need to switch to their cruddy back-up weapons or suck down the dragon's DR/Magic for 2d4 rounds.

EDIT: And if you use Spell Compendium and the party has Mass Energy Resist, STRONGLY consider the breath weapon transmutation spells in there. Re-shaping or using it as a swft action is nice, but more thna anything...if it's a blue dragon and they put up mass lightning res, it's imperitive to be able to be able to say, "actually, he's using acid breath this round." Assuming you rule that re-casting a different resistance type over-rides the first type (spell overlap), they then can't just negate his breath weapon with a single action. The mage could still ready to cast the appropriate type as it breathes, I guess...but man is that a waste, especially since they don't know when the breath will recharge.

 

[freyar]

If you have Draconomicon, definitely check it out. Lots of good feats and spells for dragons in there; the metabreath feats might be good. Also, if this dragon is particularly special, rather than going to an older age category, you could use one of the PrCs to bump the CR. In any case, there's just good advice for running dragons in that book.

 

[TheOverlord]

The session I am currently running is also at 15th level and they are tricksy...While I believe in challenging them the odds of victory against a CR19 dragon are 3720 to 1....that is if they are pimped out as any intelligent dragon should be. With that said you know your party best so do what you need to do. I would use the following as a base...keeping in mind that every dragon is different but in 3rd edition the following prep would need to be pretty standard against practiced high level parties

You will find a huge gain by taking a look at what casting abilities the dragon should have. Your CR19 Very Old Blue Dragon casts as an 11th level sorcerer so you should have a fair set of spells. You will want to hand pick them. I will list my suggestions shortly. Also, most dragons of high intelligence would want to invest in use magic device (max rank of 33 for your dragon for total of +37 with your base 18 cha) so that they can easily use scrolls or wands whenever they are prepping for a combat that actually feel will not be overwhelmingly in their favor.

With that said a dragon's chances would be greatly diminished against a skilled high level party without the following spells prepped:

Ray Deflection-(sor4) (protects from disintegrate and enervation just to name a couple you should worry about)
Death Ward(clr4) (from scroll or wand) -- protects from death effects, energy drain
Sheltered Vitality(clr4) (from scroll or wand) -- protects from ability damage and drain
Scintillating scales(sor2) - (known sorcerer spells) -- takes natural armor and makes it into deflection bonus (varies depending on whether you are looking at Spell Compendium(SC) version or Draconomicon(DC) version--SC version is slightly stronger and was published more recently. )

Round this out with a ring of counterspells with dispel magic in it and you have yourself a veritable defense against the arcane.

Now after that I would leave the dragon's uniqueness and customization to your other choices of spells as well as feats. As an aside the awaken spell resistance (especially in this case is worth it) it will raise your Spell Resistance to the dragon's HD or in your case from 25 to 30. Which is a major improvement as most 15th level characters' checks will be 1d20+15. You've reduced their spell effectiveness by up to 25%...and if that isn't enough you can take it again.

Melee:
If you are going melee you definitely want to know the spell haste and have the feats multiattack, improved multi-attack, rapid strike and improved rapid strike (DC).

Strafe:
If you are going to strafe then take feats that allow you to stay back and keep mobile such as Flyby attack, Wingover, Adroit flyby attack, Power Climb, Snatch, Improved Snatch and Snatch and Swallow, Improved Maneuverability...get the Draconomicon if you don't have it.
Also learn the spell teleport as one of your two 5th level spells. (Or Dimension door(sor4) if you are running a lower level dragon or want your 5th level spells for nastier things)

Crush:
Also never underestimate the Crush ability. This ability alone accounts for a point or two of any larger dragon's CR. Read up on how it works it is awesome if used properly. (Neutralize the Cleric)

Tricky:
Never underestimate how tricky you can be with the spells at your disposal, a couple feats spent in meta-magic can set up some interesting scenarios. Quickened Invisibility is a great way to regroup and don't forget that as a sorcerer you only have 2 core 5th level spells as an 11th level caster but with meta-magic feat you can make your options much broader as the number of 5th level spells per day you can cast is at least 4.
Or get the spells breath weapon substitution and dispelling breath to help soften up the party. A strafing dragon could use the breath weapon substitution fairly well as it could cast the spell as it turned for another pass at the part.

I don't particularly condone tpk's but *meh* here are some great ideas to help you along.

 

[MichaelK]

Can the players run away? Because while any encounter 4 CRs over their level can be deadly dragons are already powerful for their CR. This is likely to be a TPK scenario.

Just out of fairness I'd recommend allowing a Knowledge: Arcane check for them to realize that a dragon of this size and age is well out of their league.

Your blue dragon will automatically have the ability to cast hallucinatory terrain, so I'd recommend putting some pits throughout the floor too small for a dragon to fall into which are covered by the illusion of flat level ground.

Its destroy water ability can remove the potions from the group (will save 29, per potion to survive).

Hide is a class skill, so the dragon will try to get a surprise attack off it can. It may not have sneak attack but a surprise round gives it a great opportunity to use its breath weapon.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

In general, run the dragon in accord with its intelligence.

If its a spellcaster- let it use illusions for misdirections. One I ran cast an illusion of itself strafing the party from in front of the party...while it strafed them from behind.

If its big enough, why not have it drop large stones on the party from a great height? Its a nice variant tactic that can be used from almost any range. Seagulls are smart enough to do this, so I'm pretty sure a dragon could grasp the concept.

If its surprised on its hoard, let it use its powerful tail to sweep some of that booty onto the party, essentially using its treasure to bog them down. It could also use its wings to blow dust and dirt into their eyes. It worked for Rodan, so a dragon could think of it as well, I'm sure.

As natural aerial combatants, dragons think of attack & defense in 3 dimensions. Most landborn PCs only think in 2. Use this to the creature's advantage.

If your campaign is really high-powered, I'd consider letting draconic arcane spellcasters have access to the feats that have "draconic subtype" or "Draconic Heritage" as prereqs without taking any of the prereq feats. This means they'd be eligible for the Draconic Breath Feat, which would let them convert spell slots into breath weapons. This could be a rude surprise for a party expecting the dragon to have to wait between breaths... If you think that's too much, let the dragon take one of the other similar feats, like Infernal Heritage and Infernal Shout...so it can do essentially the same thing.

 

[Runestar]

How does the xorvintaal template from MM5 stack up? I am leery about the loss of spellcasting support (no buff spells such as greater mirror image), but it does make the dragon more linear and easier to run because it has fewer options. It also make the dragon more melee-oriented rather than some sort of artillery caster.

An interesting option is to use the cr14-16 range version, then tack on martial adept lvs. Having an array of boosts and counters at its disposal can help if you are going for a more melee-oriented bent. 1-2 lvs of swordsage would give it maneuvers such as moment of alacrity, pouncing charge and quicksilver motion.

 

[NewJeffCT]

Can the players run away? Because while any encounter 4 CRs over their level can be deadly dragons are already powerful for their CR. This is likely to be a TPK scenario.

Just out of fairness I'd recommend allowing a Knowledge: Arcane check for them to realize that a dragon of this size and age is well out of their league.

Your blue dragon will automatically have the ability to cast hallucinatory terrain, so I'd recommend putting some pits throughout the floor too small for a dragon to fall into which are covered by the illusion of flat level ground.

Its destroy water ability can remove the potions from the group (will save 29, per potion to survive).

Hide is a class skill, so the dragon will try to get a surprise attack off it can. It may not have sneak attack but a surprise round gives it a great opportunity to use its breath weapon.

For a party of seven level 15 PCs, a CR 19 encounter is rated as a "Very Difficult" one.

d20 Encounter Calculator :: Pen, Paper, & Pixel

That said, I know at this level, one good roll on my part, or one failed save, can mean dead PC, or PCs.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Yeah, you'd do better to just have them face two CR 15 dragons IMHO (or slightly higher, if you want it to be above average difficulty). They're about double the expected party size, afterall.

 

[NewJeffCT]

Yeah, you'd do better to just have them face two CR 15 dragons IMHO (or slightly higher, if you want it to be above average difficulty). They're about double the expected party size, afterall.

I should also say that they'll have at least 1 NPC ally of similar level with them as well, as well as a Level 10 or so cohort.