Archivist - Cleric help

[paqqy]

So I'm going to be joining a campaign and am trying to figure out what to play. The fact that there's already a cleric and that the campaign will have a supernatural element to it has led me to the Archivist class from Heroes of Horror. My character would fit in nicely since he will know tons of info (no more "no one in the party has X knowledge skill so you're all stupid").

One problem I have is that I am perhaps overly fond of domain spells and domain abilities. As an Archivist, I lose out on that. At the same time, I get to get rid of the undead turning ability, which I suspect will not play as large a role in the campaign as Knowledge.

I've been considering taking my first level as cleric, particularly the Cloistered Cleric variant from Unearthed Arcana, which will allow me to max out all 10 of my Knowledge ranks (with [6+INT]x4 +4 Skill Points for being human) and the Knowledge Domain. I lose heavy armor and shield proficiency which I didn't intend to use anyway. If I did this my domains would be: Nobility, Mind, Knowledge... leading to the following domain abilities:

• Mind: Gain a +2 bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive checks. Gain a +2 bonus on Will saves against enchantment spells and effects.
• Nobility: The character has the spell-like ability to inspire allies, giving them a +2 morale bonus on saving throws, attack rolls, ability checks, skill checks, and weapon damage rolls. Allies must be able to hear the character speak for 1 round. Using this ability is a standard action. It lasts a number of rounds equal to the character’s Charisma bonus and can be used once per day.
• Knowledge: Add all Knowledge skills to your list of cleric class skills. You cast divination spells at +1 caster level.

The ability to inspire allies (for 3-4 rounds depending on my point allotment) seems amazing, especially when you consider that it could stack with dark knowledge bonuses. The Mind buffs are also useful for role-play. The Knowledge domain isn't really a great asset, but +1 CL for divination isn't all bad.

So these are my questions:

1. As I advance in Archivist, will I be able to cast domain spells past 1st level? If so, would they be cast from my prayerbook?
2. Is it worth losing a level of archivist for the domain abilities?
3. How would you reconcile the 1st-level cleric's prayer-based spells with future levels of prepared spells?

Just a few notes about the character.

• My character had a life before being an Archivist. It's possible that I had no class levels before becoming an archivist, but it would make more sense for me to have at least 1 class level in a class for backstory purposes proposed by the DM. A life event has pushed me onto the Archivist path.
• I'm starting at either level 3 or 4 and need a clear path to level 20.
• Character has no clear devotion to any specific deity.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

 

[concerro]

So I'm going to be joining a campaign and am trying to figure out what to play. The fact that there's already a cleric and that the campaign will have a supernatural element to it has led me to the Archivist class from Heroes of Horror. My character would fit in nicely since he will know tons of info (no more "no one in the party has X knowledge skill so you're all stupid").

One problem I have is that I am perhaps overly fond of domain spells and domain abilities. As an Archivist, I lose out on that. At the same time, I get to get rid of the undead turning ability, which I suspect will not play as large a role in the campaign as Knowledge.

I've been considering taking my first level as cleric, particularly the Cloistered Cleric variant from Unearthed Arcana, which will allow me to max out all 10 of my Knowledge ranks (with [6+INT]x4 +4 Skill Points for being human) and the Knowledge Domain. I lose heavy armor and shield proficiency which I didn't intend to use anyway. If I did this my domains would be: Nobility, Mind, Knowledge... leading to the following domain abilities:

• Mind: Gain a +2 bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive checks. Gain a +2 bonus on Will saves against enchantment spells and effects.
• Nobility: The character has the spell-like ability to inspire allies, giving them a +2 morale bonus on saving throws, attack rolls, ability checks, skill checks, and weapon damage rolls. Allies must be able to hear the character speak for 1 round. Using this ability is a standard action. It lasts a number of rounds equal to the character’s Charisma bonus and can be used once per day.
• Knowledge: Add all Knowledge skills to your list of cleric class skills. You cast divination spells at +1 caster level.

The ability to inspire allies (for 3-4 rounds depending on my point allotment) seems amazing, especially when you consider that it could stack with dark knowledge bonuses. The Mind buffs are also useful for role-play. The Knowledge domain isn't really a great asset, but +1 CL for divination isn't all bad.

So these are my questions:

1. As I advance in Archivist, will I be able to cast domain spells past 1st level? If so, would they be cast from my prayerbook?
2. Is it worth losing a level of archivist for the domain abilities?
3. How would you reconcile the 1st-level cleric's prayer-based spells with future levels of prepared spells?

Just a few notes about the character.

• My character had a life before being an Archivist. It's possible that I had no class levels before becoming an archivist, but it would make more sense for me to have at least 1 class level in a class for backstory purposes proposed by the DM. A life event has pushed me onto the Archivist path.
• I'm starting at either level 3 or 4 and need a clear path to level 20.
• Character has no clear devotion to any specific deity.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Domain spells only advance with cleric levels not character levels.

Spells from different classes are always tracked separately even if they are the same type of spell(arcane or divine)

Losing one level of archivist over 20 levels wont be that bad. It will be noticed at low levels, but as you get more powerful it will be less important.

I don't understand the 3rd question.

 

[Ahnehnois]

Spells for multiple classes are tracked separately, as noted above. If you took only 1 level of cleric, your domain powers would be those of a 1st-level cleric, and you would only ever gain access to 1st-level domain spells, which would have your cleric caster level.

If you really want domains, there are a few prestige classes that grant bonus domains. An initiate feat can also expand your spell and skill list; depends on exactly what you are looking for (though initiate feats technically have cleric levels as a prereq so you'd have to get your DM to approve that).

 

[paqqy]

It wasn't quite clear to me whether domain spells progressed with only cleric levels because of the wording, but it makes sense. Thanks for that clarification. (Really, I care very little about the ability to cast domain spells up to 9th level, but as they would me in my domains, I should be able to write them down into my prayerbook to cast, right?)

I've looked at the PrCs that grant bonus domains and none of them really go with my character.

Mostly, I really like the idea of the domain powers. And the three that I could gain with the cloistered cleric variant don't depend on cleric level, so their usefulness wouldn't decrease as I level up.

So I guess the big question is whether trading my first level as an Archivist for the ability to gain 3 non-cleric-level-dependent domain powers and some extra skill points is useful at all. I'd be a level behind in my spellcasting for the duration of the campaign.

 

[concerro]

It wasn't quite clear to me whether domain spells progressed with only cleric levels because of the wording, but it makes sense. Thanks for that clarification. (Really, I care very little about the ability to cast domain spells up to 9th level, but as they would me in my domains, I should be able to write them down into my prayerbook to cast, right?)

I've looked at the PrCs that grant bonus domains and none of them really go with my character.

Mostly, I really like the idea of the domain powers. And the three that I could gain with the cloistered cleric variant don't depend on cleric level, so their usefulness wouldn't decrease as I level up.

So I guess the big question is whether trading my first level as an Archivist for the ability to gain 3 non-cleric-level-dependent domain powers and some extra skill points is useful at all. I'd be a level behind in my spellcasting for the duration of the campaign.

Mechanically speaking I think you would be better off with the spell levels, but sometimes its worth it to drop some power if an ability is needed to represent your RP'ing idea. If you guys are playing to level 20 it wont be much of a difference, but if you are won't get that far I might go with straight archivist.

I guess another question is how hard are the DM's campaigns, and does he modify them to suit the party?

 

[paqqy]

Mechanically speaking I think you would be better off with the spell levels, but sometimes its worth it to drop some power if an ability is needed to represent your RP'ing idea. If you guys are playing to level 20 it wont be much of a difference, but if you are won't get that far I might go with straight archivist.

My understanding is that I should provide my progression up to level 20. Knowing the DM, this means I will definitely hit 20. Assuming I go with the DM's suggestion, I should take some portion of my beginning three (or four) levels as some other class. I'm trying to see how much I can cut my losses by restricting it to one level and some domain powers that might be useful.

Or perhaps I should take a level in monk.

I guess another question is how hard are the DM's campaigns, and does he modify them to suit the party?

The campaigns tend to really put you to the test in terms of difficulty. They're somewhat tailored to highlight each player at some point. He tailors his encounters and story to the characters, though he's been known to throw us some encounters that turn out to be more than we can chew.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

1) You might want to take a look at the Domain Feats from CompChamp, though only Knowledge has a direct analog.

2) If you are seriously considering a level in Monk, know that there are a host of variant Monks and monk-like classes out there. Of note in this situation would be the OA Shaman (including its 3.5Ed update in Dragon#317) which, among other things, gets Domains & IUC...and eventually earns a 3rd domain (albeit at 11th level). For more info, check my sig.

 

[concerro]

My understanding is that I should provide my progression up to level 20. Knowing the DM, this means I will definitely hit 20. Assuming I go with the DM's suggestion, I should take some portion of my beginning three (or four) levels as some other class. I'm trying to see how much I can cut my losses by restricting it to one level and some domain powers that might be useful.

Or perhaps I should take a level in monk.




The campaigns tend to really put you to the test in terms of difficulty. They're somewhat tailored to highlight each player at some point. He tailors his encounters and story to the characters, though he's been known to throw us some encounters that turn out to be more than we can chew.

How would taking a level in monk help. I will admit I am not a fan of the monk's mechanics, but I am not going to try to tell you not to do, if you think it fits your concept.

 

[paqqy]

How would taking a level in monk help. I will admit I am not a fan of the monk's mechanics, but I am not going to try to tell you not to do, if you think it fits your concept.

It wouldn't, really. Truth be told, a level in monk only fits in story-wise, but is perhaps not helpful to an archivist in general. Really, my best options are full archivist, cler 1/archivist, or cloistered cleric 1/archivist




Cloistered Cleric
UA:Cleric Variant: Cloistered Cleric - D&D Wiki

Archivist
Character Class: Archivist

 

[concerro]

It wouldn't, really. Truth be told, a level in monk only fits in story-wise, but is perhaps not helpful to an archivist in general. Really, my best options are full archivist, cler 1/archivist, or cloistered cleric 1/archivist




Cloistered Cleric
UA:Cleric Variant: Cloistered Cleric - D&D Wiki

Archivist
Character Class: Archivist

If you really want the domain powers which may not do much good in the end I would go archivist/cloistered cleric, but I think going Archivist 20 is more powerful.