Let's say my alienist casts fiendform...

[Olive]

I know the alienist PC in my campaign is keen to take this spell, so i thought I'd ask the potential rule question now:

if an alienist can summon a pusedonatural fiend using SMI-V (The latest version...), can they then use the fiendform spell to turn into a psuedonatural fiend?

Or is a psuedonatural version of a fiend no longer a fiend (ie. an [evil] outsider), and therefore not a part of this spell?

 

[Sejs]

Pretty sure you can't use polymorph and its various offspring to apply a template, but as I don't have my books handy atm I'd have to ask someone else to confirm or deny that for ya.

 

[frankthedm]

if an alienist can summon a pusedonatural fiend using SMI-V (The latest version...), can they then use the fiendform spell to turn into a psuedonatural fiend?

Or is a psuedonatural version of a fiend no longer a fiend

A psudonatural fiend is something FAR worse. They don't Have any alignment to speak of since that is a function of the balances of the Multiverse, which Psudonatural things have no part in. Yes, feinds may embody hate, greed and anger to its utmost level, but at least those a human emotions. The entities that truely earn the term "Outsider" don't even have that dubious connection to the mortal world.

IMHO i think that the far realm would make a fine Chaos plane to replace the sanitized Limbo of D&D.

latest version of what? SM1-5, or latest version of the psudonatual template [hopefully not the epic one]?

TBH, i would allow the use of the [tome and blood/manual of the planes]template, but that is only because most sane people destroy alienists at first chance IMC. Angels and Devils WILL team upto eliminat such threats when the need arises.

BTW for a fun twist you might want to consieder allowing druids to turn Psudonatural critters. They seem to be opposites enough to make sence.

 

[Olive]

latest version of what? SM1-5, or latest version of the psudonatual template [hopefully not the epic one]?

The latest version of fiendform.

 

[Black Knight Irios]

As far as I know you can't use any spell that transforms yourself, including Shapechange to become a creature with a template. So why should it be possible with fiendform, and do you know why you can't use it to become a templated creature, I'll tell you. The spells a limited by HD, so your maximum powerlevel you can get is decided and set. Templates don't add HD they only increase CR which is not governed in the spells powerlevel. So you could get incredible powerful creatures if you allowed transforming into templated creatures. Got the point.

Definite, no, can't use fiendform to become a templated creature!

 

[Kemrain]

Frankthedm, what is this Far Realm of which you speak? Endarken me, please.

- Kemrain Fthagn.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Frankthedm, what is this Far Realm of which you speak? Endarken me, please.

- Kemrain Fthagn.

I hope I may answer you, too. If not, don't read further.

The Far Realm is a Plane of Existance that existes beyond the multiverse, beyond time and space. It's where the pseudonatural creatures stem from. Nothing there makes sense. Imagine something with lots of mouths, tentacles, arms, legs, whatever, all at the wrong places and out of proportion. And slime (ectoplasm). Lots of it. That's a pseudonatural creature. And the Far Realm is just like that. And there are some arcanists who study that weird place - the alienists. They invariably become insane and instead of normal dying, they are taken away by some freakish entities and never seen again.


The Far Realm appears in the Manual of the Planes, and alienists are to be found in Tome and Blood.

 

[jester47]

I hope I may answer you, too. If not, don't read further.

The Far Realm is a Plane of Existance that existes beyond the multiverse, beyond time and space. It's where the pseudonatural creatures stem from. Nothing there makes sense. Imagine something with lots of mouths, tentacles, arms, legs, whatever, all at the wrong places and out of proportion. And slime (ectoplasm). Lots of it. That's a pseudonatural creature. And the Far Realm is just like that. And there are some arcanists who study that weird place - the alienists. They invariably become insane and instead of normal dying, they are taken away by some freakish entities and never seen again.


The Far Realm appears in the Manual of the Planes, and alienists are to be found in Tome and Blood.

Hey, KaeYoss

I like the edit note...

Aaron.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Hey, KaeYoss

I like the edit note...

Aaron.

Had that for some time, and now that the boards allow you to state the reason for editing...

 

[Gez]

The thing lies, of course, in the Alienist's pseudonatural summons ability. It gives the pseudonatural template (the one found in both T&B and the MotP, not, of course, the epic pseudonatural template) to anything they summon with a ummon monster spell.

Fiendform allows the caster to turn into an evil outsider summoned by SM I-5.

Here's three different rulings. Choose the one you prefer.

1. Pseudonatural summons affect the Summon Monster spells. Fiendform isn't one. (This is, I think, the official ruling.
2. The alienist turns into a pseudonatural version of the summoned fiend, as a result of his twisted connection to the Far Realms. (Powerful, but flavorful, and rather cool. I'd be tempted to use it.)
3. Pseudonatural summons do affect fiendform, however, the combo don't work because pseudonatural fiends are not fiends. Therefore, the alienist is unable to use fiendform, he lost the capability to draw upon fiendish powers.