D&D 4th Edition RulesAsk questions about 4th-Edition rules and the like in here. General discussion about 4E or any other game belongs in General RPG Discussion, above.
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Is there a page ref from the PHB that says you can "wield" a staff implement one-handed? I've seen it suggested somewhere, but couldn't find any mention of it. Visually, I can see the wizard wielding the staff with both hands, but mechanically it just wouldn't jive if Staff wizards were left out of the "second implement mastery" party.
I can't speak for RAW, but here's a couple things to consider.
I'm not sure if you have to wielding both implements at the same time strictly to benefit from Second Implement Mastery, and
Since a staff is two-handed as a weapon, requiring two hands as an implement means that a halfling wizard, or any other small-size wizard, would never be able to use a staff as an implement. Since it's reasonable to assume that this would not have been an intended result, you could say that using a staff as an implement does not require two hands.
Is there a page ref from the PHB that says you can "wield" a staff implement one-handed? I've seen it suggested somewhere, but couldn't find any mention of it. Visually, I can see the wizard wielding the staff with both hands, but mechanically it just wouldn't jive if Staff wizards were left out of the "second implement mastery" party.
So what's up with that?
I spoke with player in my group about that. I said it allows you to be like Gandalf in TT or RotK using a sword in one hand and his staff in the other (Spiral Tower). Specifically, since the Wizard can use the staff as an implement, it allows the wizard to "not have to swing it like a staff" freeing his other hand for a second implement (Orb or Wand). In essence, it means you can use your staff to cast the spell (because it's a better implement for the purposes of this example) but your Wand of Accuracy power to make help you hit.
No. If you wield a staff implement as a weapon, you treat it as a quarterstaff and use two hands. A staff can be used as a quarterstaff, quarterstaves are not implements. Cust Serv. has given two different answers to this question depending on how the question is phrased. The only RAW talks about wielding the staff as a weapon, there is no mention of the staff implement needing two hands. There is a clear and specific delineation to when you can use 'weapon' magic powers with implements, i.e. Wizard of the Spiral Tower. There is no specific rule about the staff as implement. The general rule for implements is that they are one handed. All of the art of staff wielding mages show them using it one handed. Its not rules but it shows some design theory.
Until there is errata saying otherwise, staffs (sic) can be wielded one handed at my tables.
If you are using a staff as an implement then you can wield it in one hand.
If you wish to whack someone with it you must use two hands and cannot be a halfling.
The description of a staff even describes it as "... a walking stick..." which can be wielded in one hand and can "be used as a quarterstaff to make melee attacks" which needs two hands to do.
Heck even the art in the PHB has the wizard wielding the staff in one hand...
I think the important thing to remember is that a staff is not a quarterstaff. I think this is where the confusion comes in right away. People assume they are the same thing.
If a wand could be used as a two handed sword, it does not mean that it is one.
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I think I would give wizard's at least the following options for a staff implement:
Quarterstaff - can be used as an implement when held in one hand, needs to be held in both hands to wield as a weapon (too big for small characters to wield as a weapon).
Shortstaff - can be used as an implement when held in one hand, treat as a club when wielded as a weapon (small characters can wield as a two-handed weapon).
While weapon sizes could be a PITA in 3.x, it is one of the few things about 4e that really bothers me. Did all the halfling smiths, bowyers, etc get killed in the changeover?
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I'm with Andur on this. Custserv must be smoking crack. Too many fantasy troupes that just don't jive with that to make it acceptable to me. IMHO one hand to use as an implement should be fine.
Since the main benefit of the staff is as a defensive bonus - I don't see like as effective when only used in one hand.
I would allow it to be used as an implement in one hand but to gain the implement effect I would require both hands (or do we want Wizards with a light shield in one hand and a staff in the other).
Since the main benefit of the staff is as a defensive bonus - I don't see like as effective when only used in one hand.
I would allow it to be used as an implement in one hand but to gain the implement effect I would require both hands (or do we want Wizards with a light shield in one hand and a staff in the other).
But then why would you not allow any PC to carry a staff in two hands and get a defensive bonus from it?
The bonus is not combative in nature, otherwise, anyone could do it.
It's magical in nature. Even another Wizard cannot gain that bonus if he is not able to use the Staff implement. Think of it as a mini invisible force field that Staff Wizards can put up.
And yes, if a Staff Wizard takes Str 13 and the Light Shield feat, I would allow him to have +2 to AC. Why not? He paid for it and gave up something else to acquire it.
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Last edited by KarinsDad; 14th July 2008 at 04:17 PM..
A wizard's staff is a walking stick. It doesn't HAVE to be able to be used like a quarterstaff. I have seen lots of short walkingsticks. They are called canes. Perfect for the Halfling wizard, and great flavor. Maybe even a cane sword. It's a game, do it however it's fun for you AND the other players.
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I think the important thing to remember is that a staff is not a quarterstaff. I think this is where the confusion comes in right away. People assume they are the same thing.
If a wand could be used as a two handed sword, it does not mean that it is one.
I would personally think that' a bit of a stretch. If it requires two hands to use in battle, I don't think it suddenly shrinks down to a one handed stick when your not hitting people with it. The reason they say counts as a quarterstaff instead of is a quarterstaff is because quarterstaves can't be used as implements.
Not that this necesarily answers the final question of if you can just hold it one hand while your casting a spell. I personally think evidence points to no, but I grant it's still a grey area.
I would personally think that' a bit of a stretch. If it requires two hands to use in battle, I don't think it suddenly shrinks down to a one handed stick when your not hitting people with it.
Why do you think that is a bit of a stretch?
In order to use it effectively in battle, sure you've got to have two hands available to swing your 6ft staff.
But most of the day you carry it in one hand, using it like a big walking stick (see every wizard picture ever drawn ). When using it as an implement, I'd be completely happy with the wizard just presenting the staff strongly in his hand (c.f. Gandalf in LotR, cf Dragonslayer where it is sometimes held in two hands and sometimes in one hand).
It seems reasonable to me that using the staff as an implement doesn't have to be the same as using it to duel with someone.
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). When using it as an implement, I'd be completely happy with the wizard just presenting the staff strongly in his hand (c.f. Gandalf in LotR, cf Dragonslayer where it is sometimes held in two hands and sometimes in one hand).
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