What if we removed the half-level bonus to everything?

[Asmor]

What would happen if we removed the half-level bonus to everything? What would the consequences be? Make all DCs static, rather than based off of level. No bonus to attack rolls or defenses, etc.

Off the top of my head, it seems like HP, damage potential, and unusual powers would be the only real difference between a low-level character/monster and a high level one. Meaning, for example, a bunch of commoners could gang up to kill an ancient dragon, though several of them would probably die every round, and it would take a long, long time for them to kill the dragon.

Anything I didn't consider?

 

[Doctor Proctor]

What would happen if we removed the half-level bonus to everything? What would the consequences be? Make all DCs static, rather than based off of level. No bonus to attack rolls or defenses, etc.

Off the top of my head, it seems like HP, damage potential, and unusual powers would be the only real difference between a low-level character/monster and a high level one. Meaning, for example, a bunch of commoners could gang up to kill an ancient dragon, though several of them would probably die every round, and it would take a long, long time for them to kill the dragon.

Anything I didn't consider?

One of the problems is that it would be roughly the same difficulty to hit Orcus versus Irontooth from KotS. Granted, you'll have magic items against Orcus, but he would have enchanted armor or an equivalent behind the scenes bonus.

Part of the point of the level scaling is that you an hit a enemy a few levels beneath you relatively easily. For example, rather than minions, you could throw in enemies that were like 3 levels lower. The players would hit very easily, the enemies would miss a lot, but they would still have to work through their hp.

By the same token, you could buff up someone like a Fighter such that a high level solo can't hit him, and then just go to town till your whittle his hit points down. With no scaling AC his AC will be the same as enemies that were closer to the PC's level.

 

[Nail]

Anything I didn't consider?

Yep.





If you took level bonuses away, then at 30th level it would be just as difficult to hit a kobold minion and it would be to hit Orcus.

....and that's just all kinds of wrong.

 

[Thanee]

This, of course, doesn't really answer the question...

What if we removed the half-level bonus to everything?

Goblins and Kobolds would rule the world (since they have the numbers).

Bye
Thanee

 

[scarik]

If you simply scaled the mobs down by subtracting their levels from their defenses you would come up across the 'go more than 5 and it doesnt work anymore' effect.

If you factored the monsters AC the same way you factor a PC's Orcus would have a level-independent AC of:
10 base
+7 Int bonus
+11 Masterwork Hide armor + 6 ('natural armor')
=28

A Fighter would have an attack bonus of:
+1 Weapon talent
+10 Strength (base 20 + demigod)
+3 Proficiency
+6 Enhancement
=+20

He hits Orcus on 8.

Normally he would be +35 and need a 13 or better to hit Orcus 48 AC.

If you remove the normal level factor in PC attacks and Monster stats and add in a normalizing factor of +1 to hit and defense for each level higher than the party, you get similar results as the RAW.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Yep.





If you took level bonuses away, then at 30th level it would be just as difficult to hit a kobold minion and it would be to hit Orcus.

....and that's just all kinds of wrong.

How so? You hit the kobold minion and it dies. You hit orcus and he shrugs it off. Pretty much the same way as he does in the rules now.

Unless of course you hit him with a big nasty power. In which case you're high level, and you could hit him with ease anyway...

The only real problem I see is that as a DM you'd have to watch where you use minions: minions will pretty much be a constant low level of threat, and it won't really matter which minions you use - they'll all have roughly the same defenses and die just as easily as one another, kobold to dread wraith.

 

[Thanee]

How so?

...then at 30th level it would be just as difficult to hit a kobold minion as it would be to hit Orcus...

Bye
Thanee

 

[Doctor Proctor]

How so? You hit the kobold minion and it dies. You hit orcus and he shrugs it off. Pretty much the same way as he does in the rules now.

Unless of course you hit him with a big nasty power. In which case you're high level, and you could hit him with ease anyway...

But since level has nothing to do with "to-hit", a level 3 party could hit him just as easily. The only issue they would have is dealing with his massive HP.

The only real problem I see is that as a DM you'd have to watch where you use minions: minions will pretty much be a constant low level of threat, and it won't really matter which minions you use - they'll all have roughly the same defenses and die just as easily as one another, kobold to dread wraith.

What sense does that make though? This is why the 1/2 level bonus was added, was to create a way to make higher level encounters actually harder in comparison to low level ones. A level 10 party could sweep aside whole armies of Kobolds, because they're weak. Getting rid of the 1/2 level means that it becomes very hard to balance minions across levels.

 

[Nail]

How so? You hit the kobold minion and it dies. You hit orcus and he shrugs it off...

Think this through just a bit more.

....by 30th level, you shouldn't be missing level 1 monsters. You should be easily slaughtering them.

A level 10 party could sweep aside whole armies of Kobolds, because they're weak.

Exactly.

 

[Asmor]

....and that's just all kinds of wrong.

How so?

Bye
Thanee

The statement you quoted, Thanee, wasn't the only statement there, nor even the last one.

It's like I said in the OP; high level things are now easier to hit, but you still have to deal with their massive amounts of HP. Anything short of an army of kobolds isn't going to make a dent in Orcus, and even then it's not very likely that they'd be able to kill him.

This basically turns HP into the new level-based defense.