Reasoning behind Extended Rests?

[CapnZapp]

I've been wondering about how D&D is built-up around having daily resources that you need to rest for the "night" to regain.

Obviously, one reason is "that is how it has always been". But 4th Edition is very much it's own game, and so I am not satisfied with that answer.

Another is "to make you hold back on your kewlest powers".

But that implies that resting for the night (i.e. taking an extended rest; you can obviously squeeze in three or four bouts of adventuring in a single 24-hour period) is bad somehow. Something to be avoided.

But why is that? Where - in the rules of the PHB and DMG - does it specify the consequences of resting "too often"?

Okay, so once in a while your DM will tell you "the evil High Priest has now started his ritual of World Doom, which you all know will take precisely 48 hours to complete. What do you do?" and there you have a specific and perfectly adequate reason to fight your way to the top of his mountain stronghold without taking more than 48/6=8 extended rests, or you will have Failed.

But most (if not all!) adventures doesn't have anything even remotedly as constrained and inflexible as this.

Quite often you gain vague hints that you must act heroically and with some modicum of urgency or Bad Stuff will happen. But seldom will Bad Stuff happen just because you rolled badly the last encounter so you feel you have to take that one extra Extended Rest.

So why not take Extended Rests once you've used up your Daily powers and most of your item dailies as well.

What is the incentive to keep going, right down to your very last healing surges? When "everybody" seems to agree taking an Extended Rest is not only rightly deserved, but mandatory as well...

And taking it a step further - why is 4th edition still designed around this concept? Why is "not fighting for six hours" considered to be such a penalty that players are expected to avoid it, even if it means they regain their best powers?

All thoughts on this would be appreciated! (including links to any previous discussion, if any

 

[DreamChaser]

well, you can't rest "too often" because you can only take an extended rest once per day...

 

[James McMurray]

"Not fighting for six hours" isn't a penalty, but "keep fighting through milestones" is a bonus. You get more item uses, rings get better, you keep the pressure on your enemies instead of letting them relax or push the pace.

 

[CapnZapp]

well, you can't rest "too often" because you can only take an extended rest once per day...

True, but my question remains:

Why not continue the 15-minute adventuring day of 3rd Edition?

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Because continuing to fight builds up tension. Tension is what makes games exciting. You'll find that in MOST adventures there is a time limit of some sort. It is needed on order to help build up that tension.

Every once in a while you'll see an adventure come along without some sort of time limit, but it should really be the exception. The game is exciting when you are pushed to the limits, are on your last leg and the outcome is uncertain. But you don't want every combat to be like that.

So, the solution is simple. You make each combat use up more and more of your resources until you end up in a climactic battle where you ARE on your last legs.

And that's what the rules were created to encourage: Only 1 extended rest every 24 hours is allowed, each time you are healed you use up healing surges, you only have so many daily powers, you only get healing surges and daily powers back with an extended rest.

All of this, plus the encouragement to put a time limit into adventures adds up to this: You must keep going because you are heroes and you are racing against time, you can't just stop to rest, you must try to avoid as much damage as you can and conserve your daily powers for when they are truly needed.

As for WHY the rules encourage this...because most people find that the most fun. It also most accurately reflects what happens in most fantasy novels that a lot of D&D players read.

 

[the Jester]

True, but my question remains:

Why not continue the 15-minute adventuring day of 3rd Edition?

Because it's lame.

The 15-minute adventuring day was one of the worst aspects of 3e, and I am glad it's gone. Really- who goes to work for 15 minutes and then calls it a day? I would just about kill for that job, as long as the fifteen minutes of work wasn't agonizingly painful.

 

[DreamChaser]

Because it's lame.

The 15-minute adventuring day was one of the worst aspects of 3e, and I am glad it's gone. Really- who goes to work for 15 minutes and then calls it a day? I would just about kill for that job, as long as the fifteen minutes of work wasn't agonizingly painful.

And as Majoru said above, it's about story. If the point is to "win" each fight for the sake of winning each fight and there is not interconnectedness to the battles, and the characters have no motivation beyond "kill, get xp, get treasures; repeat" then it would make sense to switch to the 15 minute adventuring day, remove the 1 extended rest per day limit, and have fun.

If encounters are part of a story being told, then the story will dictate the pace and the players will naturally avoid resting and plan their resources to accommodate that. Needing to rest is often a burden in these situations and more story-driven players will plan their resources accordingly.

I'm not saying that battle-driven without story is not a good way to play; however, the rules are written assuming that the battles are connected in some way that matters the those involved.

DC

 

[Doctor Proctor]

Even without there being a time limit, you can still make consequences for taking too many rests.

Say your players are exploring a dungeon. They go through part of the first level, blow all their dailies, and then leave the dungeon to take an extended rest. What, the enemies won't notice that all their guards are dead? Of course they will! After they do this twice, the enemies will obviously know that they're coming back again and might start laying down traps. Or better yet, try and surround the party. They could let them get into the dungeon a bit, and then use secret doors to get around behind the party and lay an ambush for them on their way out. Then they've expended all their dailies and their item powers and will have a tougher fight.

This is both the sorts of things that you need to worry about when taking an extended rest, and it's the sort of things that a DM can do to discourage the "15 minute adventuring day".

 

[ValhallaGH]

True, but my question remains:

Why not continue the 15-minute adventuring day of 3rd Edition?

Partly because the rules no longer allow it.

PHB 263 (emphasis mine):
EXTENDED REST
✦ Duration: An extended rest is at least 6 hours long.
✦ Once per Day: After you finish an extended rest,
you have to wait 12 hours before you can begin
another one.

Partly because there's nothing impressive, heroic, cool, interesting, or practical about going out, fighting a single fight, finding a spot to camp, and resting until "tomorrow" after a mere hour of consciousness.

Partly because everyone, even those who regularly use the 15-minute day, saw it as a bug of the system and not a feature.


Now, as to why you should keep going: there exist two main reasons.
1) Story and character reasons. Characters might have a time limit, or they might just have too much self-respect to nance about resting after 15 minutes. Characters might actually be heroic, in which case they often push themselves beyond normal limits. Finally, there may not be a reasonably safe location to camp after the first 15 minutes of adventuring.

2) Rules encouragement. Specifically, the (many) advantages of milestones and their accomplishment.

 

[Serphet]

because the party might die if they rest in a dungeon... or find clearing out that undead crypt is really hard when the undead rise again the next day, stronger .

I'm a dick when my party abusing resting habits, thats my job right?

for good inspiration see the night hag on pg. 151 , I formed a specter around the concept, great for sleeping npc's (specters invis at will helps to)