"How to run a PC quick, clean and effective - Forked Thread: (...prevent Grindspace!)

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Forked from: How to build encounters in 4e (aka Only you can prevent Grindspace!)

The thread on "How to build encounters in 4e (aka Only you can prevent Grindspace)" also reminded me of other comments that some people seem to have trouble running their PC effectively.

I am not necessarily about power-gaming (and not at all about character build), but also about how fast you resolve your action. How long does it take you to make a decision on which power to use, where to move, whom to attack?

What can you make your decisions on your character actions quickly, without losing effectiveness? What considerations do you take into account, how do you weight your options?
The right tactics and quick thinking can do a lot to make a combat less tedious and simply run faster. Every minute your fellow players don't have to watch you coming to your decision is a minute the combat lasts less.

There are two major components to this:
- How well do you know your powers?
- How well do you get a grasp of a combat situation and know how to apply your powers?

This thread can be all about finding guidelines and suggestions to help people doing the combat fast, smoothly and playing effectively.

A few general tips (and feel free to add or expand on them):
o Know the Basics. You should understand the movement rules (move, run, shift, charge, slide, push, pull) and the conditions (slowed, immobilized, restrained, dazed, stunned, helpless, weakened) and the actions you have availble (Standard, Move, Minor, Immediate Reaction or Interrupt, Opportunity Actions, Opportunity Attacks, Basic Attacks).
You will not always know everything about a specific condition. That is okay. This is a game you play for fun, it's not a homework or even a test of your rules knowledge. But for these case, have the places where they are described marked or readied.

o Know your Specifics. What do your class abilities do? What powers do you know and how do they work. You don't need to know the specifics of powers you don't have or that other PCs have (it can help, but it's most important that you know what you can do.)
Know where to find their description, know which power you have still available to you. Power Cards, Tokens, bookmarks in your PHB, they can all go a long way to make things run smoother.

o Understand your role(s). The role is described in the class description, but try to understand not only what you are supposed to do, but how your class makes it possible for you to do so. Also learn what secondary roles your class has. (Paladin is Defender + Leader, Fighter is Defender + Striker). And remember - with the right feats and multiclass choices, your role might actually or you can at least give it a different spin.
Your role typically provide you with certain decisions to make, but your class also has a big effect on this.
For example, a Fighter will try to get surrounded by a lot of opponents and keep them "sticky" to himself.
A Shielding Swordmage looks at things very differently - he actually doesn't want his marked enemies to stay close to him, because only if the attack someone else, he can use his Shielding Aegis and negate his enemies damage potential.


All these are "basics". Basics of the game, basics of your class, basics of your characters. But there is more. You can learn to read a combat situation quickly to make your choices quick and yet matter strongly. This kind of "Smart Play" can be very rewarding.

I think that "smart play" can also do a lot to keep encounters interesting.

Generally, it seems the best idea to "focus fire" on one target. But this is not always the case. For example, if you have an encounter power that lets you immobilize an opponent, you need to choose your target carefully. If there is no one in range of that enemy (melee reach or his ranged attacks), he is a good target to immobilize. Allies in melee with a immobilized target to make good if they move (or rather shift) away from it before its turn comes up. And so the guy with the immobilizing attack has to take his allies options (and its initiative) into account when deciding who to immobilize. If the Warlord and the Rogue are already flanking an opponent, immobilization is a waste. Your allies are in a good position already.
If you see some big melee brute is still a few squares away from your allies, he is a great target - he is basically neutralized for one round (it's basically almost as good as if you had dazed him!). If for some reason a Fighter is standing adjacent to an immobilized foe and is himself unable to move (immobilized, dazed), he might want to rely on his trusty Tide of Iron to push the enemy out of range before he can act, forcing him to waste a turn.
Immoblizing an Artillery monster is a good choice if your allies are already standing around it. But it's useless if it is still 15 squares away from them.

These examples just focused on powers that immobilize. (for example: Don't weaken someone that won't be able to attack) You can probably make similar tactical considerations for other conditions. And they all lead to you delaying your power use to the best opportunity and not just following a fixed script of powers.

 

[shilsen]

Nice suggestions. One thing I would add to what you mentioned is to know your team. I'm currently playing a tactical warlord in a group that's got to fourth level, and I'd guess that out of 7 players I'm the second fastest person at the table in deciding what I'm going to do (after my girlfriend, whose ranger will 80% of the time Twin Strike anything that moves ). I try to get through my actions as quickly as possible for the reasons you note above. And the thing which lets me do so as well as still making good tactical decisions and keeping the group alive is that I have a very good idea of everyone else's capabilities. Knowing their powers and their options and what they can (or can't) do lets me make informed decisions and to do so quickly. For me personally, it's a big factor in speedy, effective play. And, as you note, quick and smart play is something greatly to be desired.

 

[Mengu]

It's not easy to play right and play fast. It requires a certain way of thinking, and a mastery of the rules. But when you can get a few people in the same room who can get it together, play fast and well, it is a rather rewarding experience.

Combat with 3 or 4 players goes a lot faster than 5 or 6 players because there is always one or two people in a large group that everyone is waiting on.

Player tools to speed up game play:

1. Use a magnetic initiative board (should be operated by a player)
2. Pay attention to the initiative board
3. Decide what you are going to do during the turn of the player before you.
4. Mark any ongoing damage before the beginning of your turn.
5. Quickly describe your actions and roll your dice.
6. Use multiple different colored dice if rolling against multiple opponents or rolling multiple attacks. Communicate to the DM (or another player next to you) which dice are for which targets as you are rolling.
7. Don't think too long about using an action point or not, if it looks like a good time to use it, use it, if you feel hesitant, skip it.
8. Roll any saves and announce the end of your turn.

DM tools to speed up game:

1. Make sure you have a basic plan for the monsters before the game.
2. Label your monsters as A, B, C, etc. before the game. 3. At the beginning of the encounter roll multiple dice for initiative, and quickly read off the initiative results adding appropriate bonuses (I read left to right on the dice) to the intiative keeper.
4. Use monster encounter powers early and often, and cross them out when used. This makes sure they get to use them before they die and quickly limits your options to a few at-wills.
5. Don't use too many monsters with recharge powers in an encounter. The way I do recharge powers on non-solo monsters is I put a tick next to it every time I don't use the power. When I feel I need to use the power, I roll as many dice as I have ticks for and see if the recharge comes up. For solos I just use the regular method since their recharge powers are typically very important.
6. Keep track of any conditions on a monster right next to their running hit points, and cross them out when the condition runs out.
7. When it's clear the PC's are winning, have monsters just crumble. Say they kill a necromancer and 4 of his 6 zombies, there is not much point slugging through fighting those 2 last zombies, so have them crumble down on their turn after making one final attack.

Tools for both sides:

1. PAY ATTENTION TO EVERYONE ELSES AND THE ENEMIES ACTIONS. I think the biggest reason for delays is a person saying they are going to do something, then another person reminding them that action is not necessary then the person has to rethink their turn. If everyone pays attention to who is attacking/marking what, who is injured, who is healing who, what conditions are inflicted on who, then turns can go a lot faster. The rogue doesn't have to think about how he is going to weave through the fray to get a flank, if he is paying attention and knows that the fighter just knocked someone down, and a thrown dagger will do the job. This one is a big pet peeve of mine.
2. Use markers for marked/cursed/quarried/bloodied targets. These I think are the most important ones. If you have the markers to do it, tracking other conditions on the battle map may also speed things up.

I'm sure more items could be added to these lists, but it's some of the stuff I try and pay attention to so I spend more time describing the action, rather than resolving the action.

 

[nittanytbone]

I'd like to second knowing your role and sub-role. That information is essential for making sound, quick tactical choices.

The flip side of that coin however is being able to identify monster roles. You need to be able to guess which foe is the brute, which is the skirmisher, which is the artillery, etc, and choose your targets appropriately. Each class stacks up differently against the main types of foes. For example, it is probably a waste of time for a striker to go after the soldiers earlier in the fight if there are more lucrative targets elsewhere.

 

[DracoSuave]

-Know- your class features and your at-wills by heart. If the DM asks you 'How much damage does your Divine Challenge do' you need to know the answer immediately.

 

[77IM]

Great advice all around.

I recommend to my players:

a) If they don't know how one of their powers or items works, they ask about it BEFORE combat, preferably before the actual game session. Players get to pick their own powers so there's really no excuse for not knowing them.

b) Talk tactics with the other players. Many powers are designed to set-up your teammates or have effective combos. I encourage this before combat but also allow a certain amount of it during combat, since an effective combo can hasten the enemy's demise and also be used in future combats.

c) If a player is not sure what to do, just hit something. You don't need to be Garry Kasparov on every single turn.

-- 77IM

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

It's not really about smart play (though it is conductive to smart play) but one tip to speed up play is to use one unified intiative for the bad guys. That way after round 1 it's just us-them-us-them. Trust me, it's a lot faster. It especially helps with complex tactics; the PCs can go in whatever order is more advantegeous without bothering to keep track of delayed actions.

Basic smartplay ;

Maximize area effect. Do whatever you need to catch as many people as possible in those area and also to grant as much bonus to attack rolls as possible to these effect. Push, slide, pull enemies around to get them where they need to be to let the wizard (or whoever has an area effect lined up) attack them all at the same time.

Help your rogue. Based only on his actions, rogues usually can't sneak attack much more than 50% of the time. In order to reach 100% in a fight, the team must help him. Think of what you can do to maneuver him in good position or even better, allow him a SA opportunity by inflicting a conditions on the BG. And then consider which is the best BG to try this on.

Focus your fire when you can, obviously. But consider the limits of focusing your fire. The more important consideration is to hit. Many people prolong their fights needlessly through focused fire...

For example, a fighter mostly targets AC. There isn't much point for him in focusing his attacks on a high AC enemy when a low AC one is available. It's always better for him to hit someone else then miss the target that the striker is focusing on.

Similarly, in a large melee, it's usually better for the wizard to blow up four opponents and kill none (but delivering a lot damage) than focus on one and kill him with a focused strike (unless that target was about to do something really harmful). Of course, if he targets just one, his odds of hitting no one sky rockets. Rolling many attack dice is always better than rolling just one, in any case. Pure economy of actions.

Focused fire is really mostly a striker schtick. Your comrades just try to output as much damage as they can while holding the line and staying alive. The striker surgically picks off the enemies that have been made vulnerable by his comrades actions and finish them off.

 

[77IM]

Oh! I almost forgot a really important one, but DracoSuave reminded me:

Pre-calculate all the maths for your powers. These don't change much during the session so there's no reason NOT to pre-calculate the maths and write down the results. One of my pet peeves is players who go to make an attack and roll the d20 and then say, "OK, that was a 13, plus 1/2 my level is 15, plus my Strength is 19, and then I have a plus 1 sword so that's 20... oh yeah, proficiency bonus plus 3 for 23..." They could have done that maths ahead of time and just written down "Attack: +10" for that power.


I also encourage players to write down their powers in the way that is most readable to them. Consider the following:

Dreadful Word / Warlock (Star) Attack 1
You whisper one word of an unthinkable cosmic secret to your foe. His mind reels in terror.
Encounter ✦ Arcane, Fear, Implement, Psychic
Standard Action / Ranged 5
Target: One creature
Attack: Charisma vs. Will
Hit: 2d8 + Charisma modifier psychic damage, and the target takes a –1 penalty to Will defense until the end of your next turn.
Star Pact: The penalty to Will defense is equal to 1 + your Intelligence modifier.


Contrast that with:

[ ] Dreadful Word (standard; ranged 5; one creature) p.132
+7 vs Will; 2d8 + 5 psychic damage, and the target takes a –3 penalty to Will defense until the end of your next turn.


The second form is much easier to read, has the information pre-calculated in the order in which it is needed, and has the page number listed in case you need the full details.

-- 77IM

 

[DracoSuave]

Also, Tieflings inherently make the grind go faster.

See, there's something about getting bonuses to hit during the fights' endgame that make the endgame seem a lot shorter.

 

[Vayden]

Nice thread guys. One very basic thing that I didn't see mentioned above: roll your attack and damage dice at the same time. It's a little thing, but it definitely helps speed it up. We have a warlock in one of my groups whose round lasts forever because he likes to roll his attack roll for his eldritch blast, then roll the first damage die, then the curse die . . . it goes on for a bit, and then it takes him another little bit to add it all up.