D&D 4th Edition RulesAsk questions about 4th-Edition rules and the like in here. General discussion about 4E or any other game belongs in General RPG Discussion, above.
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I was hoping for some clarification on how to handle healing between encounters. The rules say that players may spend healing surges during a short rest, and that they regain powers. Our party cleric argues that means they can opt to NOT spend healing surges and therefore wait until the cleric regains his healing words and spend them thusly, then short rest again, re-gain healing word yada yada, making the healing process astronomicly more efficient.
I never interpreted the rules that way because, as far as I am concerned, characters wouldnt opt NOT to spend healing surges after combat whilst they wait for the cleric to regain his healing words. (What, do they stay in a state of combat readiness just because of a rule glitch?)
The other thing is, I interpreted an *encounter* power as being applicable to an encounter. So, if there is not encounter, how can there be the use and re-use of encounter powers...
Hoping to get feedback from other GM's on how they handle
Yes, this is entirely legal, acceptable, and encouraged. Encounter powers recharge after a short rest, you don't have to be in an encounter to use them.
__________________ ++++++++++++
Travis Stout
"An absolute monarchy is one in which the sovereign does as he pleases so long as he pleases the assassins."
--Ambrose Bierce
I was hoping for some clarification on how to handle healing between encounters. The rules say that players may spend healing surges during a short rest, and that they regain powers. Our party cleric argues that means they can opt to NOT spend healing surges and therefore wait until the cleric regains his healing words and spend them thusly, then short rest again, re-gain healing word yada yada, making the healing process astronomicly more efficient.
I never interpreted the rules that way because, as far as I am concerned, characters wouldnt opt NOT to spend healing surges after combat whilst they wait for the cleric to regain his healing words. (What, do they stay in a state of combat readiness just because of a rule glitch?)
The other thing is, I interpreted an *encounter* power as being applicable to an encounter. So, if there is not encounter, how can there be the use and re-use of encounter powers...
Hoping to get feedback from other GM's on how they handle
Your cleric is wrong. Encounters count as "fights" or "skill challenges" or something else applicable as decided by the DM, but generally just those two things. You can't sit there idly and keep adding the extra healing from Healing Surges. Although if you end up waiting 6 hours you get all surges back anyway. I'm not quite sure what angle your player is taking, sounds like he's trying to argue for a loophole that doesn't exist.
Our party cleric argues that means they can opt to NOT spend healing surges and therefore wait until the cleric regains his healing words and spend them thusly, then short rest again, re-gain healing word yada yada, making the healing process astronomicly more efficient.
That particular "abuse" had not occured to me before. So basicly, they are taking one short rest for each couple surges used?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PHB263
You can take as many short rests per day as you want....After a short rest, you renew your encounter powers....If you use an encounter power (such as a healing power) during a short rest, you need to take another short rest to renew it so you can use it again.
Seems pretty cut-and-dried to me, it is even used as an example.
As for me, I think it is important to keep the pressure up, to give the party an incentive to "beat the clock." So perhaps multiple short rests give their enemies more time to prepare, set up, gather allies, spy on the party, and so on. It places a greater burden on the DM to keep track of time in terms of short rests.
Smeelbo
Last edited by Smeelbo; 11th February 2009 at 08:27 PM..
Yes, this is entirely legal, acceptable, and encouraged. Encounter powers recharge after a short rest, you don't have to be in an encounter to use them.
Ok, maybe i'm wrong, but are you saying that if the party rests for 1 hour, 60 minutes, and effectively takes twelve 5-minutes rests in a row, the cleric recharges his Healing Word 12 times, and over the space of 1 hour, can cast Healing Word 24 times?
Per the power:
Special: You can use this power twice per encounter, but only once per round. At 16th level, you can use this power three times per encounter. Target: You or one ally Effect: The target can spend a healing surge and regain an additional 1d6 hit points.
Sounds to me like it's tied entirely into the encounter, not before or after. It's designed to really help a player out in the heat of combat.
Yes, this is entirely legal, acceptable, and encouraged. Encounter powers recharge after a short rest, you don't have to be in an encounter to use them.
Really? Then Im confused, because I saw a preview of the bard class coming in the PHB2. He gets a healing word type spell. On top of that, he also has a feature that sais he can inspire his comrades via song and add his charisma (I think...its one of the stats) to everyones healing surge value outside of combat. Why would he ever use this ability when he can spam his healing word to grant extra d6 dice.
If it was the designers intention that encounter healing abilities to be spammed whilst resting, then this new design feature for the bard is the single most useless ability ever in the histroy of game design.
So when you say it is entirely legal and intended, how did you come to that conclusion? Are you a 4th edition game designer?
Last edited by BobTheNob; 11th February 2009 at 08:40 PM..
I really, really think Healing Word can only be used during an encounter, like it says in the power description. You can't use it while "resting".
I am not sure what additional language the authors of the PHB could have included to persuade you that you can use a healing power during a short rest. It's called out specifically.
"Using Powers while You Rest: If you use an encounter power (such as a healing power) during a short rest, you need another short rest to renew it so that you can use it again"
Really? Then Im confused, because I saw a preview of the bard class coming in the PHB2. He gets a healing word type spell. On top of that, he also has a feature that sais he can inspire his comrades via song and add his charisma (I think...its one of the stats) to everyones healing surge value outside of combat. Why would he ever use this ability when he can spam his healing word to grant extra d6 dice.
Because using that ability doesn't take extra resting time? And because the bard's Charisma bonus is likely to be higher than the statistical average of a d6?
Quote:
If it was the designers intention that encounter healing abilities to be spammed whilst resting, then this new design feature for the bard is the single most useless ability ever in the histroy of game design.
Except that it's not.
Quote:
So when you say it is entirely legal and intended, how did you come to that conclusion? Are you a 4th edition game designer?
1) The PHB itself explicitly calls this out as a valid example of using encounter powers between encounters, as Smeelbo said.
2) This question has been asked roughly a thousand times since 4E came out. Customer Service answers and posts by the development team have all said that not only is the ability to use healing word outside combat within the realm of the rules, it was anticipated and expected by the design team.
__________________ ++++++++++++
Travis Stout
"An absolute monarchy is one in which the sovereign does as he pleases so long as he pleases the assassins."
--Ambrose Bierce
Yep. This is legal by the rules and I'm fine with it.
Keep in mind that events in the world don't stay static and that there are lots of circumstances in which they don't have unlimited rest time like this. But, if they do, this is a completely valid tactic.
It's even more not worthless if someone uses their healing power at the end of an extended rest and the gm allows the to stack. (You ARE spending a healing surge at the end of an extended rest to regain hp, just you are using a power to do so...)
Just to clarify what some of the others are saying. Your cleric can use a healing word while not in combat, but he has to take a short rest recover it. Since he doesn't recover his encounter powers until after a short rest this means the party has to take a short rest so he gets back his healing word(s) and then has to take another short rest to get his healing word(s) back again. Depending on the situation this may or may not be risky. In a dungeon this often *is* risky while on overland trip it probably is not as bad.
The idea is the party if they are in a safe area can pretty much just cure up at the cost of time or triggering an encounter where the cleric doesn't have all of his healing powers. There is also a matter of efficiency - Does the extra d6 + Healer's Lore matter? IE if each character is just down the amount of a surge or a bit more after a fight the extra is pretty meaningless, since the bonus is going to be wasted in an over cure anyway.
It's even more not worthless if someone uses their healing power at the end of an extended rest and the gm allows the to stack. (You ARE spending a healing surge at the end of an extended rest to regain hp, just you are using a power to do so...)
Why would you care at the end of an extended rest? You get all your HPs and surges back anyway.
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