Implements/Weapon Powers Question

[renau1g]

Do weapons used as implements (i.e. assassins, sorcerers, etc.) add their weapon property (say, Flaming weapon, convert all damage to fire) to an implement power. So I guess an example is, could a sorcerer use his +1 Flaming Dagger to change Acid Orb to fire damage?

 

[Nichwee]

Yes and yes.

They do add the propeties, and you can count using it a an implement as attacking with it and damage caused by the attack as dealt with it.

Thus the flaming dagger can make the damage fire damage.

A Jagged Blade can allow implement attacks to crit on 19 or 20, the same as for weapon attacks.

The only bit that is Weapon attack specific is the proficiency bonus (or feats/bonuses etc you have which trigger on melee, weapon attacks/damage).

 

[abyssaldeath]

Do weapons used as implements (i.e. assassins, sorcerers, etc.) add their weapon property (say, Flaming weapon, convert all damage to fire) to an implement power. So I guess an example is, could a sorcerer use his +1 Flaming Dagger to change Acid Orb to fire damage?

Properties yes. What you are describing is a power not a property. Right now there is no consensus about whether or not you can use a power from a magic weapon with a power that has the implement keyword.

IMO, yes you can. There is nothing in the rule books that say you can't. In fact, powers from a weapon use the same rules as any other magic item powers.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Properties yes. What you are describing is a power not a property. Right now there is no consensus about whether or not you can use a power from a magic weapon with a power that has the implement keyword.

IMO, yes you can. There is nothing in the rule books that say you can't. In fact, powers from a weapon use the same rules as any other magic item powers.

Exactly. By RAW it is perfectly acceptable though its worth noting that the wording of some specific weapon powers precludes this (like Bloodclaw Weapon's power is limited to use in melee attacks). I guess its still theoretically possible for there to be a melee attack power with the implement keyword and in that case bloodclaw would be usable with it but no such power exists AFAIK.

 

[Velmont]

Considering the FAQ refer to Pact Dagger and Holy Avenger, two weapons that have no power.

Considering these two items:

Flaming Weapon

Staff of Acid and Flame

Considering the Flaming weapon tell: 'dealt by this weapon' because it is a Flaming Weapon, so for a Flaming Dagger, it would probably read: 'dealt by this dagger'.

Considering when you hit with a power using an implement, and the power is cast using that implement, you hit with the implement (and here, I consider only the implement giving a bonus to attack for dual-implement wielder feat).

Considering all that, I think I would allow, as a DM, my players to use the power of a magic weapon for a Power that ask for an Implement, if the character can use that weapon as an implement.

But I see nothing that clearly state I would be either right or wrong about it.

That is my 2 coppers.

 

[Mahali]

Do weapons used as implements (i.e. assassins, sorcerers, etc.) add their weapon property (say, Flaming weapon, convert all damage to fire) to an implement power. So I guess an example is, could a sorcerer use his +1 Flaming Dagger to change Acid Orb to fire damage?

No, those are written as powers and not properties.
Sadly, the FAQ seems to indicate you can apply a weapons property to implement powers. We don't allow it in our group.

 

[stonegod]

No, those are written as powers and not properties.
Sadly, the FAQ seems to indicate you can apply a weapons property to implement powers. We don't allow it in our group.

That's a broad reading of the FAQ. The FAQ lists the three things you can use: Properties, Criticals, and Enhancements. Powers are none of these three. Thus, they cannot be used when using the weapon as an implement (unless the power specifies it can, which is the exception).

 

[abyssaldeath]

That's a broad reading of the FAQ. The FAQ lists the three things you can use: Properties, Criticals, and Enhancements. Powers are none of these three. Thus, they cannot be used when using the weapon as an implement (unless the power specifies it can, which is the exception).

The FAQ is also referencing two magic weapons that either don't have a power of don't have a power that can be used as with an attack. So for the very specific question there is no reason for the answer to mention weapons powers at all. Also, FAQ's do not create rules. They only answer question based on RAW. I've already stated in my previous post that there is nothing RAW to disallow it.

 

[stonegod]

The FAQ is also referencing two magic weapons that either don't have a power of don't have a power that can be used as with an attack. So for the very specific question there is no reason for the answer to mention weapons powers at all. Also, FAQ's do not create rules. They only answer question based on RAW. I've already stated in my previous post that there is nothing RAW to disallow it.

Two points to counter:
- If the FAQ doesn't create rules, nor indicate how they should be applied, then its purpose is questionable.
- But on point of RAW, then any power of a weapon which mentions its use as a weapon cannot be used as implement (as there is a difference between a weapon-as-weapon and a weapon-as-implement); the same issue would apply to a staff wielded as a weapon. The ability to use a weapon as an implement says nothing of using of using the powers that apply to weapon attacks to implement attacks.