January Rules updates 2010

[abyssaldeath]

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/UpdateJan2010.pdf

Only the PHB1 this time around. Important changes too. Dominated no longer relies on the Dazed condition and forced teleportation grants a save to negate it if the destination space would cause the target to fall or if that space is hindering terrain.

 

[avin]

forced teleportation grants a save to negate it if the destination space would cause the target to fall or if that space is hindering terrain.

Let's say a Wizard have a spell that can teleport enemies. He casts it on an orc which has no clue where he's gonna be teleported.

If the Wizard decides to teleport him to a normal solid ground, the orc just goes.

But if the Wizard decided to teleport him to a cliff all of sudden our friendly orc receives a sign and can make a save?

Am I getting this right...?

While this make sense in crunch therms it pushes rules one more time in the "let's fix crunch and let them deal with the rest" metagame, in my humble opinion...

Hope I'm missing something here. 4E is already a bit too much metagamist for my taste and, if I were a design, I would be carefully enforcing all rules with some explanation...

Will check it later at home.

 

[ValhallaGH]

Am I getting this right...?

Nope.

The orc doesn't get a sign so that he knows to activate his "saving throw" feature. The universe says "Well, that's not fair. Here little orc, have a chance to not fall to your doom."

What? You've got no problem with Magic bitch-slapping the Universe but you take issue when the Universe fights back?

 

[Tale]

I would generally take it as "Orc feels he's being teleported and knows where to. If it's safe, he objects only slightly. If it's dangerous, he all out panics and has a chance to will it not to happen."

 

[avin]

What? You've got no problem with Magic bitch-slapping the Universe but you take issue when the Universe fights back?

He's not bitch-slapping the universe with Magic. All Magic works within the rules of D&D universe just like airplane wings seem to subvert our reality when a plane flights.

Now, having a save just because crunch demands, depending of a condition the orc is not aware of seem a bit weird for me.

 

[fba827]

i am surprised to get any sort of update a month after the last batch - nice of them to do so.

 

[Tale]

Now, having a save just because crunch demands, depending of a condition the orc is not aware of seem a bit weird for me.

Why must you assume he's unaware of it? In general, the game assumes everyone knows what's going on. Why assume it's sneaky in this case?

 

[avin]

I would generally take it as "Orc feels he's being teleported and knows where to. If it's safe, he objects only slightly. If it's dangerous, he all out panics and has a chance to will it not to happen."

Hindering terrain is not that dangerous... it would work for me in the case of a cliff, the orc is in the middle ot the teleport, get a glimpse of where he's going, then forces his will against the caster (magic) and teleports back.

But hindering terrain... I don't know.

 

[Danceofmasks]

But if the Wizard decided to teleport him to a cliff all of sudden our friendly orc receives a sign and can make a save?

How is this any different from forced movement?

A wizard decides to slide an orc.
Orc gets slid towards the edge of a cliff, and gets a save.
Orc gets slid inbetween a rogue and a fighter, in a square that's got some cloud of daggers in it, and just goes.

 

[abyssaldeath]

He's not bitch-slapping the universe with Magic. All Magic works within the rules of D&D universe just like airplane wings seem to subvert our reality when a plane flights.

Now, having a save just because crunch demands, depending of a condition the orc is not aware of seem a bit weird for me.

A saving throw isn't an action. The Orc doesn't need to be aware of anything. There is no roleplaying that needs to be done it's all background mechanics. The only thing that the creature casting the teleport needs to know is that it fail.

If you really need an explanation, maybe teleportation magic requires a safe "landing" and if there isn't one the magic weakens allowing for it to be resisted.