Two-Weapon Fighting - Mixing Natural Attacks with Weapons...

[RisnDevil]

Ok. According to the rules, as I understand them, if I have a character with two natural claw attacks, and a natural bite attack, as a Full Attack, I can use all three. Now, if I pick up a sword, as a Full Attack, I can get my FULL number of attacks (because of BAB) with the sword, AND one bite and one claw attack? Is this right? Now, what happens if I also take Two-Weapon Fighting, and want the off-hand weapon to be unarmed? How many attacks with what can I get? Just a little confused here, so any help would be nice. (And to make explaining to me easier, let us say that my BAB is +17.) Thanks in advance.

 

[shilsen]

Ok. According to the rules, as I understand them, if I have a character with two natural claw attacks, and a natural bite attack, as a Full Attack, I can use all three. Now, if I pick up a sword, as a Full Attack, I can get my FULL number of attacks (because of BAB) with the sword, AND one bite and one claw attack? Is this right?

Correct. Note that your bite and claw attacks will take a -5 penalty and only gain 1/2 Str bonus on dmg, since they count as secondary attacks. You can change the -5 to a -2 with the Multiattack feat, and Two-Weapon Fighting doesn't help.

Now, what happens if I also take Two-Weapon Fighting, and want the off-hand weapon to be unarmed? How many attacks with what can I get?

When you say "unarmed", I presume you mean "unarmed strike". Then you attack at -2 with all attacks (since the off-hand attack counts as a light weapon). You get one off-hand attack and the damage caused is based off size.

Just a little confused here, so any help would be nice. (And to make explaining to me easier, let us say that my BAB is +17.) Thanks in advance.

Sample example:

Let's say you have a medium-sized character with BAB +17, who also has 2 claw attacks doing 1d4 each and a bite that does 1d6. I'm only using BAB for calculations.

With a longsword in one hand, he can attack at +17/+12/+7/+2 with the longsword, doing full Str dmg. He can also attack once each with one claw and the bite at +12 each, doing 1d4+1/2 Str with the claw and 1d6+1/2 Str with the bite. If he has multiattack, he uses the claw and the bite at +15 each.

If he decides to use an unarmed strike as an off-hand weapon rather than the claw and has Two-Weapon Fighting, he uses the longsword for +15/+10/+5/+0 with the longsword, doing full Str dmg. His off-hand attack is an unarmed strike and is at +15, doing 1d3+1/2 Str dmg. If he doesn't have Improved Unarmed Strike, the unarmed strike does nonlethal dmg and draws an AoO.

 

[RisnDevil]

Thanks for the quick reply. Two last questions on the same note, does that mean that the only way to gain additional attacks with the off-hand, unarmed, is with the Two-Weapon Fighting tree? Also, I thought that since it is a natural attack, that I did not need to take Improved Unarmed Strike, as I am already proficient in its use? Thanks in advance.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Also, I thought that since it is a natural attack, that I did not need to take Improved Unarmed Strike, as I am already proficient in its use? Thanks in advance.

They are two different things. There is natural attacks and then there is unarmed strikes. They each follow their own seperate set of rules when it comes to making attacks with them. Improved Unarmed Strike only applies to your unarmed strikes, not your natural attacks.

 

[shilsen]

Thanks for the quick reply. Two last questions on the same note, does that mean that the only way to gain additional attacks with the off-hand, unarmed, is with the Two-Weapon Fighting tree?

Yes.

Also, I thought that since it is a natural attack, that I did not need to take Improved Unarmed Strike, as I am already proficient in its use? Thanks in advance.

What RigaMortus2 said.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

If he decides to use an unarmed strike as an off-hand weapon rather than the claw and has Two-Weapon Fighting, he uses the longsword for +15/+10/+5/+0 with the longsword, doing full Str dmg. His off-hand attack is an unarmed strike and is at +15, doing 1d3+1/2 Str dmg. If he doesn't have Improved Unarmed Strike, the unarmed strike does nonlethal dmg and draws an AoO.

Just a quick note:

If he elects to use the longsword in one hand, and use his unarmed strike as his off-hand weapon, he can still claw and bite.

So:

Longsword: +15 / +10 / +5 / +0
Unarmed Strike (Kicks, Headbutts, etc.): +15
Claw: +12 (+15 with Multiattack)
Bite: +12 (+15 with Multiattack)

Note that the TWF penalties that apply to his longsword and unarmed strike attacks do not apply to his natural attacks. As shilsen said earlier, they follow different rules.

 

[Enamel_32]

Patryn of Elvenshae: Wow, I didn't realize that. Vicious, and useful for a certain BBEG I'm developing.

 

[RisnDevil]

Thanks for all the help, and that is just sick, Patryn of Elvenshae.....I MUST use it!