AoO Q - Cat vs. Commoner

[Cheiromancer]

If a house cat (a tiny animal) takes a 5-ft. step to move into a commoner's square to attack him, does he provoke an attack of opportunity? The SRD seems to say that he does, and he doesn't:

SRD
Tiny, Diminutive, and Fine Creatures: Very small creatures take up less than 1 square of space. This means that more than one such creature can fit into a single square. A Tiny creature typically occupies a space only 2-1/2 feet across, so four can fit into a single square. Twenty-five Diminutive creatures or 100 Fine creatures can fit into a single square. Creatures that take up less than 1 square of space typically have a natural reach of 0 feet, meaning they can’t reach into adjacent squares. They must enter an opponent’s square to attack in melee. This provokes an attack of opportunity from the opponent. You can attack into your own square if you need to, so you can attack such creatures normally. Since they have no natural reach, they do not threaten the squares around them. You can move past them without provoking attacks of opportunity. They also can’t flank an enemy.

SRD
Take 5-Foot Step

You can move 5 feet in any round when you don’t perform any other kind of movement. Taking this 5-foot step never provokes an attack of opportunity. You can’t take more than one 5-foot step in a round, and you can’t take a 5-foot step in the same round when you move any distance.

You can take a 5-foot step before, during, or after your other actions in the round.

I think he doesn't; the rule for tiny creatures is just a result of the "AoO upon leaving a threatened square to go into another threatened square" rule plus the "you threaten your own square" rule, and the inviolability of the 5-ft. step would take priority.

Anyone got a different slant on how this rules conflict can be resolved?

 

[brehobit]

I think he doesn't; the rule for tiny creatures is just a result of the "AoO upon leaving a threatened square to go into another threatened square" rule plus the "you threaten your own square" rule, and the inviolability of the 5-ft. step would take priority.

Anyone got a different slant on how this rules conflict can be resolved?

I agree with your reading.

Mark

 

[frankthedm]

I don't think a 5' adjustment can be done into a creature's space.

 

[GwydapLlew]

I don't think a 5' adjustment can be done into a creature's space.

That's my thought as well. You cannot end a move inside someone's space unless you are significantly smaller than them. A housecat is Tiny and a human is Medium; it's not enough of a size difference.

BRB, pulling my rules.

 

[Cheiromancer]

But a tiny creature doesn't have reach. In the absence of a ranged weapon, a tiny creature would not be able to attack a small or medium creature. And that isn't the case.

[edit] Found it (in the same section as the rules quoted in the next post):

SRD
Very Small Creature

A Fine, Diminutive, or Tiny creature can move into or through an occupied square. The creature provokes attacks of opportunity when doing so.

Which raises the question again; what if the square is entered via a 5-ft. step?

 

[GwydapLlew]

Ending Your Movement: You can't end your movement in the same square as another creature unless it is helpless.

Square Occupied by Creature Three Sizes Larger or Smaller: Any creature can move through a square occupied by a creature three size categories larger than it is.
A big creature can move through a square occupied by a creature three size categories smaller than it is.

Since a 5' adjustment has you ending your movement inside the square of another creature, the cat cannot take a 5' adjustment into the human's square. Therefore, there is no contradiction in the rules. For once.

But a tiny creature doesn't have reach. In the absence of a ranged weapon, a tiny creature would not be able to attack a small or medium creature. And that isn't the case.

A tiny creature doesn't end its movement in the opponent's square, however; it must enter the square to attack, but only for the purpose of the attack. After the attack, it returns to its original square.

 

[GwydapLlew]

Which raises the question again; what if the square is entered via a 5-ft. step?

I would rule it the same as any other 5' step through difficult or non-standard terrain; in that case, it's not protected from AoO's.

 

[Cheiromancer]

A tiny creature doesn't end its movement in the opponent's square, however; it must enter the square to attack, but only for the purpose of the attack. After the attack, it returns to its original square.

I don't know how this works. If a cat is in an adjacent square to the commoner, what does it need to do to make an attack? Can it take a 5-ft. step in order to make an attack? It could stay in the square if the attack dropped the commoner below 0 hp, thereby rendering him helpless.

[edit]

I would rule it the same as any other 5' step through difficult or non-standard terrain; in that case, it's not protected from AoO's.

You can't make a 5-ft. step in difficult terrain, can you?

[edit2] Take 5-foot step.

 

[IanB]

Since a 5' adjustment has you ending your movement inside the square of another creature, the cat cannot take a 5' adjustment into the human's square. Therefore, there is no contradiction in the rules. For once.



A tiny creature doesn't end its movement in the opponent's square, however; it must enter the square to attack, but only for the purpose of the attack. After the attack, it returns to its original square.

This doesn't seem right to me. The special rule for "very small creatures" specifically says they can move "into or through". If they couldn't end their movement in the same square, the text would just say "through", right?

 

[Len]

A tiny creature doesn't end its movement in the opponent's square, however; it must enter the square to attack, but only for the purpose of the attack. After the attack, it returns to its original square.

So, a cat can attack a human, but only if it has the Spring Attack feat...?