Spell-Like abilities and Mageslayer feat chain

[Shin Okada]

If Mageslayer and related feats drop one's SLA's caster level to 0 or lower, can he still use it?

Most of the abilities are clearly ineffective with 0 or negative caster level, for example, Fireball will not cause any damages at all if it's caster level is 0 or below. But what if an ability has no duration or variable numbers based on caster level?

 

[Physiker]

I'd rule that it's similar as with wands. You forge wands at a minimum caster level, you can't forge them at a lower level (higher level is possible).
Just like that you need a minimum casterlevel to cast a spell.
Which means that you can't cast a spell if your casterlevel is somehow permanent reduced. (Not only through a temporary negativ level)

But I can't find a rule at the moment.

 

[irdeggman]

From the SRD:

CASTER LEVEL
A spell’s power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to your class level in the class you’re using to cast the spell.

You can cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal, but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the same caster level.
In the event that a class feature, domain granted power, or other special ability provides an adjustment to your caster level, that adjustment applies not only to effects based on caster level (such as range, duration, and damage dealt) but also to your caster level check to overcome your target’s spell resistance and to the caster level used in dispel checks (both the dispel check and the DC of the check).

From Rules Compendium pg 118

For creatures that have spell-like abilities, a designated caste level defines how difficult it is to dispel their spell-like effects. This caster level also defines any level-dependent variables, such as range and duration. The creature's caster level never affects which spell-like abilites the creature has; sometimes the given caster level is lower than the level a spellcasting character must have to cast the spell of the same name. If no caster level is specified, the caster level is equal to the creature's hit dice.

Intersting information - it likes like he would still be able to use the SLA, but all of its level based effects are still as if he had his effective CL, which may or may not make the spell of any use.

 

[Starbuck_II]

If Mageslayer and related feats drop one's SLA's caster level to 0 or lower, can he still use it?

Most of the abilities are clearly ineffective with 0 or negative caster level, for example, Fireball will not cause any damages at all if it's caster level is 0 or below. But what if an ability has no duration or variable numbers based on caster level?

You can still use spell-likes with 0 casters but they may not have any effect. Daze still works, but fireball does have a caster related benefit (damage).

 

[Shin Okada]

Well, at this moment, I am trying to make some Yuan-Ti Half-blood archer rangers. And I am planning to let them take alternative class feature in Complete Champion which gives bonus feats instead of spell casting ability. Then let them take various archery feats and Mageslayer feat chain.

Half-blood has Produce Acid (SP) ability. As caster level is not clearly shown, I am assuming it is equal to it's racial HDs (7th). Assuming a half-blood has Mageslayer and Pierce Magical Concealment, it can still use this ability with, say caster level -1?

 

[Starbuck_II]

Well, at this moment, I am trying to make some Yuan-Ti Half-blood archer rangers. And I am planning to let them take alternative class feature in Complete Champion which gives bonus feats instead of spell casting ability. Then let them take various archery feats and Mageslayer feat chain.

Half-blood has Produce Acid (SP) ability. As caster level is not clearly shown, I am assuming it is equal to it's racial HDs (7th). Assuming a half-blood has Mageslayer and Pierce Magical Concealment, it can still use this ability with, say caster level -1?

Yes, But you'd autofail SR checks I guess.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

From Rules Compendium pg 118



Intersting information - it likes like he would still be able to use the SLA, but all of its level based effects are still as if he had his effective CL, which may or may not make the spell of any use.

Alternative outlook: He still HAS the SLAs, he just can't use them. Same as I rule if you fail to meet the prerequisites of a feat. You still have the feat, and it counts for other feats you might have listing it as a prerequisite, but you lose access to the feat's benefit until the problem is corrected.

To the OP: Give them flaws so they can take Practiced Spellcaster. Do a little magical DM handwave if I'm mistaken and PS can't apply to your CL for SLAs. It's definitely more fair than min-maxing their CL into the negatives for great feats but still letting them cast...

 

[Runestar]

There are monsters with SLAs but caster lv lower than would normally be required for a spellcaster to cast them. So I don't think there is any correlation between the two.

I am not sure if a creature with caster lv0 can still use SLAs though, but I believe a fiend with caster lv1 would still be able to use blasphemy, for instance.

 

[irdeggman]

There are monsters with SLAs but caster lv lower than would normally be required for a spellcaster to cast them. So I don't think there is any correlation between the two.

Which is exactly what the rules compendium quote said.

I am not sure if a creature with caster lv0 can still use SLAs though, but I believe a fiend with caster lv1 would still be able to use blasphemy, for instance.

It depends on what the spell says. If it is level dependent benefits then I don't think they have any effect.

 

[Starbuck_II]

There are monsters with SLAs but caster lv lower than would normally be required for a spellcaster to cast them. So I don't think there is any correlation between the two.

I am not sure if a creature with caster lv0 can still use SLAs though, but I believe a fiend with caster lv1 would still be able to use blasphemy, for instance.

Blasplemy would have no effect. It relies wholefully on caster. The lowest effect if equal to caster. Since anyone with 2 HD surpasses this, they are immune.