Brilliant Energy vs. Fortification

[UltimaGabe]

Let's say you have a +1 Keen Brilliant Energy Scimitar. You have a Critical Threat range of 15-20, and you ignore armor. Correct?

Now let's say you're fighting someone with +5 Heavy Fortification Plate Mail. Technically, they're immune to Critical Hits.

What happens when you roll a 16? Is it a critical threat? After all, the Fortification is something granted by the armor. Brilliant Energy weapons ignore armor. Is it a crit or is it not a crit?

 

[Artoomis]

An excellent question

A brilliant energy weapon ignores nonliving matter. Armor bonuses to AC (including any enhancement bonuses to that armor) do not count against it because the weapon passes through armor. (Dexterity, deflection, dodge, natural armor, and other such bonuses still apply.)

It ignores the physical armor, but not properties of the armor. I think there would be no critical. I think this because

This suit of armor or shield produces a magical force that protects vital areas of the wearer more effectively.

It's some sort of force, not an Armor bonus or something physical that Brilliant Energy ignores.

 

[Scion]

Although I do think that brilliant energy, as written, does not allow bypassing of the armors non-armor bonus enhancements I do think that for at least things it should.

Or it should ignore natural armor as well.

As it is there is almost never a reason to get it, a +1 brilliant vs +5 is just no contest. The +5 is better in very nearly every situation that there is.

So I think that a dm could easily allow the bypassing of all armor effects, or to ignore natural armor, or just something to actually make it useful.

 

[Artoomis]

Although I do think that brilliant energy, as written, does not allow bypassing of the armors non-armor bonus enhancements I do think that for at least things it should.

Or it should ignore natural armor as well.

As it is there is almost never a reason to get it, a +1 brilliant vs +5 is just no contest. The +5 is better in very nearly every situation that there is.

So I think that a dm could easily allow the bypassing of all armor effects, or to ignore natural armor, or just something to actually make it useful.

+5 is better in nearly every situation?

I think not. Try telling that to our 18th level group that just faced a brilliant energy weapon. It was cutting through us like a knife through butter!! It was MUCH more effective that a +5 weapon would have been.

Partially as a result of that encounter, I added a "Brillianr Energy" AC enty on my character sheets.

 

[Scion]

So you have named one situation out of the nearly infinite out there, how does that prove your point exactly?

Against medium humanoids who predominantly wear heavy armor and carry shields it is fairly effective. (assumeing that they arent one of the things that are immune to the weapon entirely)

Against nearly everyone else? the +5 weapon is better.

Effectively the +4 enhancement has to beat a minimum of 6 points of armor to come close to being worth it. But the sheer amount of creatures that are immune to it is incredibly daunting.

Creatures with high natural armor? Probably wont do much, they dont normally wear armor. Undead? Constructs? Objects? Doesnt even effect them.

So for the huge ranges of creatures that you just cant effect or gain no benefit from there are a few situations where it is good in. Big deal. The +5 weapon is way better because it works in so many more situations and is effectively always useful.

 

[Artoomis]

... The +5 weapon is way better because it works in so many more situations and is effectively always useful.

In the hands of PCs, +5 is usually better. In the hands of NPC adversaries, Brilliant Energy is downright scary.

 

[RangerWickett]

Remember that the weapon bypasses not just the armor, but the enhancement bonus of magic armor. So their +5 Full Plate doesn't grant +13 AC, or +5, it grants none.

 

[Artoomis]

Remember that the weapon bypasses not just the armor, but the enhancement bonus of magic armor. So their +5 Full Plate doesn't grant +13 AC, or +5, it grants none.

Too true. Scion's point was that PCs usually fight stuff without armor bonuses, which is a legitimate point in most campaigns.

 

[Scion]

In the hands of PCs, +5 is usually better. In the hands of NPC adversaries, Brilliant Energy is downright scary.

Which shouldnt be a balancing factor. Making it give a touch attack would make it pretty much even for everyone, make it a decent choice although hard (because of certain creatures immunities), and make it worth the cost.

It would change nothing on the end of the adversaries, but would make it actually useful for pc's. Sounds like a win/win situation to me.

 

[Scion]

Too true. Scion's point was that PCs usually fight stuff without armor bonuses, which is a legitimate point in most campaigns.

All too true indeed do your high level encounters usually focus on people wearing armor (who arent undead) very often? Once high level magic gets thrown in I almost never see a real 'humanoid in armor' anymore, just psuedolike things where brilliant would do almost nothing.

Sorry for all of the hijacks, once again the brilliant energy as written does not bypass the other enhancements (ie things like fortification).. although with the awkward wording I could see someone trying to make a case.

SRD:
Brilliant Energy: A brilliant energy weapon has its significant portion transformed into light, although this does not modify the item’s weight. It always gives off light as a torch (20-foot radius). A brilliant energy weapon ignores nonliving matter. Armor bonuses to AC (including any enhancement bonuses to that armor) do not count against it because the weapon passes through armor. (Dexterity, deflection, dodge, natural armor, and other such bonuses still apply.) A brilliant energy weapon cannot harm undead, constructs, and objects. This property can only be applied to melee weapons, thrown weapons, and ammunition.
Strong transmutation; CL 16th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, gaseous form, continual flame; Price +4 bonus.