D&D 3E/3.5 New 3.5 Custom Class, need opinions

[Vutall]

So, ive always wanted to create a character who would have the damage soaking ability of a barbarian, the druid's animal companion, and the fighters versatility, so here is what I have created. Please feel free to comment on anything you see fit.

Clan Zaitsev Survivalist
Game Rule Information
Clan Zaitzev Survivalists have the following game statistics.
Abilities: Strength is especially important because it improves their melee attack and damage rolls. Constitution is important for giving lots of hit points, which they need in their many battles.
Alignment: Any Chaotic
Hit Die: d12

Class Skills
The class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Survival (Wis), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Nature) (Int), and Knowledge (Geography) (Int).
See Chapter 4: Skills for skill descriptions.
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) × 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Clan Zaitsev Survivalist
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A Clan Zaitsev Survivalist is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, medium, and light) and shields (including tower shields).

Illiteracy: Clan Zaitsev Survivalist and Barbarians are the only characters who do not automatically know how to read and write. A Clan Zaitsev Survivalist may spend 2 skill points to gain the ability to read and write all languages he is able to speak. A Clan Zaitsev Survivalist who gains a level in any other class automatically gains literacy. Any other character who gains a Clan Zaitsev Survivalist level does not lose the literacy he or she already had.

Threaten: Clan Zaitsev Survivalist’s gain the Threaten Ability as listed in the Mackienomicon at level 1.

Toughness: Clan Zaitsev Survivalist’s gain Toughness (see page 101) as a bonus feat at 1st level.

Animal Companion (Ex): At 1st level a Clan Zaitsev Survivalist gains an animal
companion selected from the following list: badger, camel, dire rat, dog, riding dog, eagle, hawk, horse (light or heavy), owl, pony, snake (Small or Medium viper), or wolf. If the DM’s campaign takes place wholly or partly in an aquatic environment, the DM may add the following creatures to the Clan Zaitsev Survivalist ‘s list of options: crocodile, porpoise, Medium shark, and squid. This animal is a loyal companion that accompanies the Clan Zaitsev Survivalist on his adventures as appropriate for its kind. (For instance, an aquatic creature can’t adventure with a Clan Zaitsev Survivalist on land and shouldn’t be selected by a nonaquatic character without extenuating circumstances). In most cases, the animal companion functions as a mount, sentry, scout, or hunting animal, rather than as a protector. This ability functions exactly like the druid ability of the same name (see page 35)

Uncanny Dodge (Ex):At 2nd level, a Clan Zaitsev Survivalist gains the ability to react to danger before his senses would normally allow him to do so. He retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. If a Clan Zaitsev Survivalist already has uncanny dodge from a different class (a barbarian with at least four levels of rogue, for example), he automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below) instead.



Endurance: A Clan Zaitsev Survivalist gains Endurance (see page 93) as a bonus feat at 3rd level.

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 5th level and higher, a Clan Zaitsev Survivalist can no longer be flanked; he can react to opponents on opposite sides of him as easily as he can react to a single attacker. This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the Clan Zaitsev Survivalist by flanking him, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target has Clan Zaitsev Survivalist. If a character already has uncanny dodge (see above) from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum level a rogue must be to flank the character.

Bonus Feats: The Clan Zaitsev Survivalist gains a bonus feat at 6th level and every six Clan Zaitzev Survivalist levels thereafter (12th, 18th) These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as fighter bonus feats on Table 5–1: Feats (page 90). A Clan Zaitzev Survivalist must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums. (See Chapter 5: Feats for descriptions of feats and their prerequisites.) These bonus feats are in addition to the feat that a character of any class gets from advancing levels (see Table 3–2: Experience and Level-Dependent Benefits, page 22). A Clan Zaitzev Survivalist is not limited to the list of fighter bonus feats when choosing these feats.

Damage Reduction (Ex): At 7th level, a Clan Zaitsev Survivalist gains the ability to shrug off some amount of injury from each blow or attack. Subtract 1 from the damage the Clan Zaitsev Survivalist takes each time he is dealt damage from a weapon or a natural attack. At 10th level, and every three Clan Zaitsev Survivalist levels thereafter (13th, 16th, and 19th level), this damage reduction rises by 1 point. Damage reduction can reduce damage to 0 but not below 0.

Mettle of Fortitude (Ex): At 9th level, if exposed to any effect that normally allows a character to attempt a Fortitude save for a partial or half effect (such as Slay Living), the Clan Zaitsev Survivalist suffers no effect with a successful saving throw.

Great Fortitude: A Clan Zaitsev Survivalist gains Great Fortitude (see page 94) as a bonus feat at 14th level.



Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special
1st +1 +2 +0 +0 Toughness, Illiteracy, Animal Companion, Threaten
2nd +2 +3 +0 +0 Uncanny Dodge
3rd +3 +3 +1 +1 Endurance
4th +4 +4 +1 +1
5th +5 +4 +1 +1 Improved Uncanny Dodge
6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +2 Bonus Feat
7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +2 Damage reduction 1/—
8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +2
9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +3 Mettle of Fortitude
10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +3 Damage reduction 2/—
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +3
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +4 Bonus Feat
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +4 Damage reduction 3/—
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +4 Great Fortitude
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +5
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +5 Damage reduction 4/—,
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +5
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +6 Bonus Feat
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +6 Damage reduction 5/—
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +6

Edit: Forgot that you guys dont know what threaten is.
"Threaten" Any target hit by your attack that wishes to attack something other than yourself must make a Will Save vs your Intimidate Check

 

[wolfpunk]

My initial thought is that it is overpowered. However, I am not even sure that I have a clear mental picture of what the class is supposed to model.

I would probably remove the heavy armor proficiency (doesn't mix well with uncanny dodge in my opinion) as well as the shield proficiency (or at least proficiency with tower shields).

Threaten might be too powerful of an ability for 1st level. Consider this, if you hit an opponent, and then after you hit the opponent an ally of yours hits the same opponent and deals more damage than you did, the opponent should get some sort of bonus on the Will Save. Now if your ally misses or deals less damage than you then the opponent doesn't get the bonus. Also another question, if the opponent moves far enough away that you are no longer an eligible target, do they still have to make the Will save in order to attack something else?

 

[gamecat]

Im not big on the alignment requirements (perhaps non-lawful would be better), but otherwise, I'd greenlight it - it's indeed an interesting triangulation of barbarian, fighter and druid.

Nice class!

 

[Arkhandus]

So, ive always wanted to create a character who would have the damage soaking ability of a barbarian, the druid's animal companion, and the fighters versatility, so here is what I have created. Please feel free to comment on anything you see fit.

Clan Zaitsev Survivalist

Well, for one thing, it doesn't make much sense to have a base class just for one small group of people (a single clan, city, kingdom, or guild). You could just call it the Survivalist or something.

Class Skills
The class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Survival (Wis), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Nature) (Int), and Knowledge (Geography) (Int).

A class like this ought to have Jump and Swim as class skills, at least.

Bonus Feats: The Clan Zaitsev Survivalist gains a bonus feat at 6th level and every six Clan Zaitzev Survivalist levels thereafter (12th, 18th) These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as fighter bonus feats on Table 5–1: Feats (page 90). A Clan Zaitzev Survivalist must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums. (See Chapter 5: Feats for descriptions of feats and their prerequisites.) These bonus feats are in addition to the feat that a character of any class gets from advancing levels (see Table 3–2: Experience and Level-Dependent Benefits, page 22). A Clan Zaitzev Survivalist is not limited to the list of fighter bonus feats when choosing these feats.

They don't count as Fighters for purposes of feat access, right? Just want to be sure that they don't have access to Weapon Specialization etc.

Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special
1st +1 +2 +0 +0 Toughness, Illiteracy, Animal Companion, Threaten
2nd +2 +3 +0 +0 Uncanny Dodge
3rd +3 +3 +1 +1 Endurance
4th +4 +4 +1 +1
5th +5 +4 +1 +1 Improved Uncanny Dodge
6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +2 Bonus Feat
7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +2 Damage reduction 1/—
8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +2
9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +3 Mettle of Fortitude
10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +3 Damage reduction 2/—
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +3
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +4 Bonus Feat
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +4 Damage reduction 3/—
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +4 Great Fortitude
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +5
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +5 Damage reduction 4/—,
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +5
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +6 Bonus Feat
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +6 Damage reduction 5/—
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +6

Edit: Forgot that you guys dont know what threaten is.
"Threaten" Any target hit by your attack that wishes to attack something other than yourself must make a Will Save vs your Intimidate Check

Well, quite simply, you gave this class too many goodies. It's tougher than a Barbarian (or close enough), get the barbarian's special defenses and more, get just over half the bonus feats of a fighter, get a special ability right at 1st-level that's far better than a feat (and poorly-defined at that), get a fighter's proficiencies, AND get a druid's animal companion.

Threaten doesn't even define the kinds of attack that it applies with, or how long it lasts, or when/how often foes make Will saves agianst it or how often you roll Intimidate checks for it. And it's just freakishly strong. Skill bonuses are both cheaper and higher than save bonuses.

A 20th-level cleric might have a total Will save of +24, for example, while a 20th-level Survivalist can have Intimidate at +24 before even factoring in Skill Focus, Persuasion, or magic or psionic items that provide skill bonuses. And that's with just around average Charisma. No warrior-like opponent, aside from monks (who are no match for even a ranger in melee), can resist this Threaten ability more than once in a while. A 20th-level fighter may have +12 on Will saves after all modifiers are factored in, if even that much.

Besides that uber-tanking ability, the class still has too many advantages over other warriors. The feats make up for what little the Survivalist lacks compared to a Barbarian, while the Animal Companion, Mettle of Fortitude, Threaten, and Fighter proficiencies are just a ton of icing on the cake.

Also, the Chaotic alignment requirement doesn't make any sense nor serve much purpose. They don't Rage and obviously aren't bard-like, so there's no reason they should need to be highly emotional and undisciplined just to be Survivalists.

Make it copy the Barbarian less. Ditch the Uncanny Dodge abilities, the mettle of fortitude, the Toughness feat, the Great Fortitude feat, and Threaten. Then, either drop the Base Attack Bonus to medium (as per a rogue), to compensate for the Animal Companion, or ditch the Damage Reduction, Endurance, and the Fighter proficiencies (change it to Barbarian proficiencies then). The latter would still be rather strong, but probably acceptable.

 

[Vutall]

Understood about the clan thing.

They get access to any feat marked by the fighter feats, but since they have to have the pre req, wep specialization is a no go since it needs levels of fighter, with a survivalist is not.

The chaotic alignment was to represent some of the fluff for the class which I didnt post. Basically, they are wanderers and dont particularly follow the rules per se, just what benefits them the best.

Hmm, so what about this.

Drop threaten, Drop Heavy Armor and Tower Shield proficiencies, Drop Great Fortitude, and drop Uncanny Dodge/Improved Uncanny Dodge?

Add the Climb and Swim class Skill.

 

[Greg K]

I'd start by using the barbarian hunter variant from UA as a frame of reference. Link.

 

[Mon]

Welcome to enworld, Vutall.

FWIW The class doesn't seem wildly overpowered IMO. A bit of tweaking needed, for sure, but nothing extreme.

Well, for one thing, it doesn't make much sense to have a base class just for one small group of people (a single clan, city, kingdom, or guild). You could just call it the Survivalist or something.

Disagree. Specific base classes for small corners of the world might be badwrongfun in some folks' philosophy on how a class system should be structured, but you can do whatever you like to capture the feel/theme you're going for in your homebrew. Many DMs would make a prestige class for this, but it is hardly a requirement (especially since prestige classes are, strictly speaking, optional).

Well, quite simply, you gave this class too many goodies. It's tougher than a Barbarian (or close enough), get the barbarian's special defenses and more, get just over half the bonus feats of a fighter, get a special ability right at 1st-level that's far better than a feat (and poorly-defined at that), get a fighter's proficiencies, AND get a druid's animal companion.

Disagree. Sure it is similar to a barbarian in resilience but it lacks the barbarian's main (and most powerful) feature - raging. This is a tremendous disadvantage. Further, three of the bonus feats (toughness, endurance, great fortitude) are notoriously underpowered ones that no self-respecting fighter would take. All in all the six are not nearly the equivalent of six fighter feats in qualitative terms.

It does seem too frontloaded though - too many bennies at first level that might be spread out a little thinner. Maybe move the threaten or animal companion to a later level or something? I'd also ditch the heavy armour/tower shield proficiencies as Ark suggested.

Threaten doesn't even define the kinds of attack that it applies with, or how long it lasts, or when/how often foes make Will saves agianst it or how often you roll Intimidate checks for it. And it's just freakishly strong. Skill bonuses are both cheaper and higher than save bonuses.

Agree - will save vs intimidate is crazy powerful. Maybe change it to the standard scaling DC of 10 + half level + Str or Cha bonus instead? Possibly with a synergy bonus for 5+ ranks of intimidate if you really want to tie intimidate into it.

Besides that uber-tanking ability, the class still has too many advantages over other warriors.

Disagree. Might be true of fighters. Check out barbarians, knights, warblades, and crusaders, though.

The feats make up for what little the Survivalist lacks compared to a Barbarian, while the Animal Companion, Mettle of Fortitude, Threaten, and Fighter proficiencies are just a ton of icing on the cake.

Disagree. Lacking the (by far) most-powerful and class defining ability is not "little" What about the extra mobility from fast movement? I'd say it lacks alot compared to the barbarian (before feats, threaten, etc are added in as replacements).

Also, the Chaotic alignment requirement doesn't make any sense nor serve much purpose. They don't Rage and obviously aren't bard-like, so there's no reason they should need to be highly emotional and undisciplined just to be Survivalists.

Disagree. It is his own homebrew not a class for general use. He can assign whatever alignment (read: flavour) restrictions he likes IMO. Maybe Clan Zaitsev has some special affinity for chaos or something.

Overall, I wouldn't cull it anywhere near as brutally as Arkhandus suggested. Id' do these things...

- Trim down the proficiencies a bit (drop heavy armour/tower shield, perhaps)
- Change threaten as suggested above (DC 10 + half level + Str or Cha, maybe +2 synergy from 5+ ranks of intimidate)
- Move the animal companion to 4th level and give it an effective druid level of Clan Zaitsev Survivalist level -3 (not half-level like a ranger - that is a recipe for gory death).

Another option might be start with a standard multiclassed fighter/barbarian, and take the Wild Cohort feat from the Wizards Of The Coast website. A homebrew feat for the flavour/mechanic intercept point of "Clan Zaitsev Survivalist" might top it off nicely. Just putting it out there.

 

[Vutall]

Well, I decided to drop threaten, as I cant figure out a good way for it to work, plus, as I rethought the class's back story, it doesnt exacly fit for them to have that sort of ability.

I also decided on dropping the Tower Shield and Heavy Armor proficiency.

A little story on the class, so perhaps you could help me decide on tweaks to it.

Clan Zaitsev is known for its rugged and hearty people. They live in the frozen arctic tundra of the north, and have always wandered. Never aligning themselves to any kingdoms, they have a strong dislike for others telling them what to do, but they are generally a good hearted clan. They are very druidic in their ways, but they have never discovered the worlds of magic. Almost every member of the clan has an animal that they have grown up with, and in some cases, more than one. Their male's are known for their brutal strength and great resilience. As a coming of age test, they are stripped down to nothing but their loincloths and sent out into the wilds during the coldest part of the winter for a week. If they survive and make it back to the ever moving camp of the Zaitsev, they are thrown a great feast, where everyone partakes in one way or another. They pride themselves on their ale, and ability to drink it. Females of the clan are very few and far between, and leave most of the physical labour to the males. A very interesting fact about the clan, is in combat, instead of becoming a mass of raging muscle like other clans, they remain cool and calm, like the winter air before a blizzard. Many of their warriors carry suits of armor crafted from the various animals they have encountered, including the rare ice dragon. Their primary weapon is a Warhammer, and everyone carries large, heavy shields made of steel with many spikes jutting from it. Those who managed to be raised with a ferocious beast also employ their animal's in their attacks, often rushing in first, stunning their opponent with their shield and hammer, then ordering the animal to tear the stunned foe apart.

((Needs some work, but thats the gist of it))

 

[rgard]

Well, I decided to drop threaten, as I cant figure out a good way for it to work, plus, as I rethought the class's back story, it doesnt exacly fit for them to have that sort of ability.

I also decided on dropping the Tower Shield and Heavy Armor proficiency.

A little story on the class, so perhaps you could help me decide on tweaks to it.

Clan Zaitsev is known for its rugged and hearty people. They live in the frozen arctic tundra of the north, and have always wandered. Never aligning themselves to any kingdoms, they have a strong dislike for others telling them what to do, but they are generally a good hearted clan. They are very druidic in their ways, but they have never discovered the worlds of magic. Almost every member of the clan has an animal that they have grown up with, and in some cases, more than one. Their male's are known for their brutal strength and great resilience. As a coming of age test, they are stripped down to nothing but their loincloths and sent out into the wilds during the coldest part of the winter for a week. If they survive and make it back to the ever moving camp of the Zaitsev, they are thrown a great feast, where everyone partakes in one way or another. They pride themselves on their ale, and ability to drink it. Females of the clan are very few and far between, and leave most of the physical labour to the males. A very interesting fact about the clan, is in combat, instead of becoming a mass of raging muscle like other clans, they remain cool and calm, like the winter air before a blizzard. Many of their warriors carry suits of armor crafted from the various animals they have encountered, including the rare ice dragon. Their primary weapon is a Warhammer, and everyone carries large, heavy shields made of steel with many spikes jutting from it. Those who managed to be raised with a ferocious beast also employ their animal's in their attacks, often rushing in first, stunning their opponent with their shield and hammer, then ordering the animal to tear the stunned foe apart.

((Needs some work, but thats the gist of it))

Sounds cool to me with the changes you made as far as flavor is concerned. I like it. I'm not certain it was overpowered the first time around compared to the later complete series classes and I think it would fit just fine in a Pathfinder setting power-wise.

Thanks for sharing this.
Rich

 

[Aus_Snow]

For my money, Mon has the right of it. And, because Rangers and their animal companions were mentioned, I feel compelled to state (again) for the record that Rangers' animal companions should be levelled as Druid-3, *NOT* Druid/2. Grr.