Revised Drider: Comments Please!

[Sylrae]

I never liked the MM drider. It's a throwback to 2e, and IMO its not very good.
I made this using the drow(MM) + tauric template(SS) + large monstrous hunting spider(MM). Lemme know what you think and comment on possible LA/CR.

4d8 HD
+4 Str, +6 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Int, +2 Cha
BAB 3
Base Land speed 40ft/Climb 20ft
+2 Natural Armor
Darkvision 120
Tremorsense 120
Immunity vs. sleep Effects
+2 on Saves vs. Enchantments
+2 Will vs. Spells & Effects
SR 11 + HD
Poison: 1d6 Str (DC 11 + Con)
Web
-Dancing Lights, Darkness, Faerie Fire 1/day
-Proficient with Hand Crossbow, Rapier, Shortsword
Light Blindness

---Modified Rules---
If someone wants to see this creature with standard 3.5 rules I can quickly convert this section.

Skills: I use the Pathfinder skill list, but climb, jump, and swim are now athletics.

+8 racial Bonus When Climbing/can use dex/can always take 10
+10 jumping
+4 stealth
+6 perception


Saves & BAB: Have you ever noticed that multiclassing gives you crazy jumps in your saves? that's because at first level all your good saves get a +2 bonus, so multiclassing lets you get that bonus over and over. Instead of a bad save at 1/3 and a good save at 2 + 1/2 I use 1/3 and 2/3 (same basic idea but more even multiclassing).

Fortitude 2.6~
Reflex 2.6~
Will 1.3~

Skill Points: I use Project Phoenix rules for class skills. All skills cost the same, the max = your HD, and class skills give a +3 bonus in use.
But we use CHA for Will saves. so skills per level are less by class, but you get 2 stat bonuses. in this case: (2 + Int + Wis) x 4HD.

Racial Class Skills are the ones the spider gets. So Athletics, Perception, and Stealth.

 

[Ilja]

Looks really sweet. For one, it isn't as dangerous in itself which is great because it can more easily be fitted with different campaign levels (and I've never understood why driders should be THAT dangerous). What do you think would be a decent CR for a creature like this? 3-4 somewhere, right?

But where do you get +8 perception from? Drow gets +2 Listen and Spot and spiders get +8 spot. This would be max +6 perception, or +2 with +8 on visual, but I'd probably just give it the bonus from the drow since the senses are in the head and it's just the drow's head that remains. The same for sneaking - why +4 stealth, when the spider just has +4 Hide? Since stealth is two skills together, I'd take the average bonus of +4 and +0... Just my thoughts on the matter. Still, great job, and if I'd ever need a drider, I'll definately use yours.

 

[Sylrae]

Thanks. Yeah, you make a good point, maybe I'll tweak the skill points and give averages instead of taking the max on the skills that got combined, or maybe give conditional bonuses. Afterall, theyre not actual ranks, its a racial bonus.

[Edit: I dropped the Perception to 6, but I kept the stealth. In the case of the drider, theyre in the underdark where sound is all funny anyways, I'd just narrate it as though he can use his hide wile moving, they hear the 8 skittering legs, but the cant find them, then he drops down on top of them]

I like him having better senses than a Drow though, He picked up spider traits, and he's gotta act more like a spider now, unless he found some exiled Drider community somewhere he'll be hunting prey like an animal.

As for challenge rating, I'd say 4-5, not 3-4. Keep in mind this guy will have a class level. He used to be humanoid. And you'll want to give him fitting gear. Plus he has all the drow abilities, and theyre like a +1 CR on their own.

I think the problem with the MM Drider is that it's a conversion of the 2e Drider, instead of a recreation based on the 3e Drow. Drow lost a bunch of abilities in the transition to 3e. Alot of things that were innate abilities became things on commonly owned magic items, but the Drow now keep their abilities in the world above.

Having driders built like this has additional benefits too. Like now I can make different types of driders based on different D&D spiders.

And the Bebilith Drider is now a possibility (for scaring the out of your players).

I didnt follow the template completely exactly though. He should have lost the poison, but what fun is a non poisonous spider? I mean, he's not likely to bite you, but I like the idea of the monster drooling on his weapon before attacking the party. It's creepy and evocative.

for "Type" I kept him an aberration like in the MM, instead of taking the one the template suggested.

Finally, for whatever reason, all the MM Monstrous spiders have tremorsense 60. I thought that was silly. I can see 60 for a Small sized spider. So I gave this guy 120. If I ever do anything wieht a medium monstrous spider, he'll get it with a range of 90, and I'll adjust from there. etc.

This drider is less magic and more spider. and I think that's a good thing.

I'm still looking for help assigning this guy an LA though. Can you guys gimme a hand?

 

[Sylrae]

In Case Anyone Was wondering, I managed to find RaceCalc, and this guy comes out as a +6 ECL.

 

[Quartz]

I'd drop the +2 Cha - they're supposed to be bitter and twisted - and probably the +2 Int as well. +6 Dex is a lot: +2 might be more appropriate. Further, at 4 HD, this is a creature that PCs could encounter at Level 1, so SR 11+HD (i.e. 15) is far too high: make it SR 5+HD.

 

[Hawken]

I think you're looking at this the wrong way. Drider shouldn't be a "monster" exactly, but a template to be added to any Drow of at least 4th level (that's when they get 'tested' by the clerics and either pass or fail and become a drider).

Drider is an acquired template that can only be gained by Drow.

Size and Type: The character's size changes to Large, taking up a 10' space (two 5' squares) and has a 5' reach. The character's type changes to Monstrous Humanoid.
Hit Dice: All previous HD change to d8, if they were lower. All future HD depend on class levels taken by the character.
Speed: Base speed remains unchanged. The character gains a Climb speed equal to 1/2 their base speed.
Armor Class: The character takes a -1 penalty to AC due to his increased size. He also gains a +6 natural armor bonus.
Attack: The character gains two claw attacks and a bite attack.
Full Attack: A Drider attacking without weapons uses its two claw attacks and makes a secondary bite attack. If armed with weapons, it uses its weapons as a primary attack and either its claw or bite as a secondary attack.
Damage: Damage for the claws is 1d4 each, and 1d6 for the bite.
Special Attacks:
Poison Bite: Injury, Fortitude save DC 13 + Con modifier. Initial and secondary damage is 1d6 Dex.
Special Qualities:
Drow Heritage: Driders are born Drow and have most racial traits that Drow possess except for the following: Their Darkvision range is reduced to 60' and they lose the Drow immunity to Sleep and the +2 bonus to Will saves against spells, spell like abilities and effects of an Enchantment type.
Spider Traits: Because Driders are half spider, they share traits of monstrous spiders. The females have the traits of hunting spiders, while male driders have the traits of web spinning spiders.
Class Levels: All Drow that become Drider have a minimum of 4 class levels in either Fighter, Rogue, Wizard (males only), or Cleric (females only).
Abilities: Driders have the following ability modifiers: Str +4, Dex +2, Con +6, Wis -2, Cha -4. This is already taking into account the racial ability adjustments for Drow.
Skills: Driders gain a +4 bonus to Hide and Move Silently. They gain a +8 bonus to Climb checks and may Take 10 on Climb checks even when not normally able to.
Feats: If a Drow transitioned to a Drider at 6th level, he gains the Highborn Drow feat, allowing him to cast Detect Good, Detect Magic and Levitate as innate spell like abilities 1/day each. If the Drider is a female, she can cast the following spells 1/day as innate spell like abilities: Clairaudience/Clairvoyance, Detect Law, Dispel Magic and Suggestion.
Level Adjustment: +4

The reduction of Darkvision, loss of Will save bonus and immunity to sleep are a byproduct of their transformation to a Drider, along with their new ability modifiers. The penalties for Wis and Cha come from loising a degree of sanity and their bitterness and hatred that comes about from their transformation and their being ostracized from their previous lives.

The feats thing is optional but it seemed a good way to explain all the extra innate spells they get in their MM entry.

 

[Sylrae]

*sigh* forum ate my damned post.

Anyways, the long and short of it is:
I agree with the template idea, but I didnt see it being applied to anythign but drow so I combined it with the drow before posting.

Also, I'm not big on thr MM drow's abilities, theyre largely based on 2e drow. Instead, I took the route of taking a drow and merging it with a Large Monstrous spider. I used the tauric creature template with a few exceptions.

And my thoughts were that you could have different types of drider based on different types of spider. That Idea seemed cool to me.

Plus, I wanted to ditch the extra spell-likes and make them more arachnid-beast.

I had a full template write up in my last post, but I'll leave it alone for now and do it again when i have more time. -_-*

 

[Quartz]

I think you're looking at this the wrong way. Drider shouldn't be a "monster" exactly, but a template to be added to any Drow of at least 4th level (that's when they get 'tested' by the clerics and either pass or fail and become a drider).

I like this!

Size and Type: The character's size changes to Large, taking up a 10' space (two 5' squares) and has a 5' reach. The character's type changes to Monstrous Humanoid.

Hmm... I might add a Vermin subtype to that.

Consider it thoroughly stolen!