The Warlock's Hideous Blow (Revised)

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

After resurrecting an old thread, by the power of my axe, and discussing various things concerning the Warlock, especially the Hideous Blow blast shape invocation, I've decided to house-rule it as follows:

• HIDEOUS BLOW
  Least; 1st; Blast Shape
  As a standard action, you can make a single melee attack. If you hit, the target is affected as if struck by your eldritch blast (including any eldritch essence applied to the blast). This damage is in addition to any weapon damage that you deal with your attack, although you need not deal damage with this attack to trigger the eldritch blast effect.
  If your base attack bonus is +6 or higher, you can (as part of a full-round action) make as many attacks as your base attack bonus allows. Each successful hit affects the target as if struck by your eldritch blast (including and eldritch essence applied to the blast).
  You must select any eldritch essence applied to the blast when you invoke this power. The selected essence applies to all attacks until the beginning of your next turn.
  Furthermore, until the start of your next turn, you can make attacks of opportunity that affect targets struck as if hit by your eldritch blast (including any eldritch essence applied to the blast).

Design Notes:
I believe this is still weaker than Eldritch Glaive (see WotC's Dragon Magic), as Hideous Blow targets full AC, instead of Touch AC. Also, the Eldritch Blast damage from a successful Hideous Blow is not multiplied as it would be with Eldritch Glaive critical.

Thoughts/Comments/Suggestions?

 

[nonsi256]

First thing's first: Eldritch Glaive is broken - especially as a least invocation.

To make Hideous Blow (HB) fair and balanced, you could rule out that instead of a standard action, an EB modified by HB is incorporated into a melee or range attack and is applicable only once per round.
HB may be discharged on a successful touch or ranged-touch attack (applicable against multiple opponents - provided a single attack roll is used, such as in the case of Whirlwind attack).
In case of a melee attack, the Warlock can decide to trigger it after a successful touch-attack has been confirmed.
In case of a ranged attack, the Warlock must decide whether or not to trigger HB before the attack roll is resolved.

this seems to me like a reasonable midway between both invocations.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

First thing's first: Eldritch Glaive is broken - especially as a least invocation.

As Dandu would say, "Objection!"

OP, your variant sounds perfectly balanced to me, good job.

I am toying with my own idea to make Hideous Blow both useful and noticeably different than Eldritch Glaive. My idea would be something like a "debuff" ability. It would remain a standard action against full AC, and you would still add EB damage to your melee damage, though I'd make sure it did not provoke an AoO as the current Hideous Blow does.

But after that, it would leave a lasting hex of sorts on the target until the beginning of your next turn. Anytime until then that it is struck for damage in melee, it suffers your EB damage again. Now...that might be too strong, maybe limit it to suffering it once per any creature's turn that attacks it (so if the Fighter then full attacks it, only the first hit triggers EB damage again; then the Barbarian whacks the target on a charge and triggers it again on his turn, etc...). But that's the gist of my idea.

Yours is fine, though.

 

[Dandu]

First thing's first: Eldritch Glaive is broken - especially as a least invocation.

As StreamoftheSky would say, "You are entitled to your opinion, but allowing the Warlock to deal his eldritch blast damage iteratively produces someone with about the same damage output as an unoptimized fighter or rogue, thus making it rather balanced overall."

 

[nonsi256]

As StreamoftheSky would say, "You are entitled to your opinion, but allowing the Warlock to deal his eldritch blast damage iteratively produces someone with about the same damage output as an unoptimized fighter or rogue, thus making it rather balanced overall."

Okay, given this invocation is a full round action and given the build-hulahoops[FONT=&quot][/FONT] you'd have to go through and the game-mastery that's required to make the most of it, I've changed my mind. It's not so great in the big picture.

As for Hrothga's version, I still need to think about it, but for now it seems okay.

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

First thing's first: Eldritch Glaive is broken - especially as a least invocation.

Hi, nonsi256.

I kinda thought that, myself, when I first started examining it. But, then I realized that since Eldritch Glaive required a full-round action, the warlock was pretty much setting himself up to be up close and personal with his enemies if he didn't finish them during the round he invoked Eldritch Glaive (possibly through a provoked AoO).

To make Hideous Blow (HB) fair and balanced, you could rule out that instead of a standard action, an EB modified by HB is incorporated into a melee or range attack and is applicable only once per round.
HB may be discharged on a successful touch or ranged-touch attack (applicable against multiple opponents - provided a single attack roll is used, such as in the case of Whirlwind attack).
In case of a melee attack, the Warlock can decide to trigger it after a successful touch-attack has been confirmed.
In case of a ranged attack, the Warlock must decide whether or not to trigger HB before the attack roll is resolved.

this seems to me like a reasonable midway between both invocations.

That's an interesting solution, but it doesn't fit the established action types, at least the ones I can think of. It sounds most like a swift action. Not sure I want to go that route, though. I'm comfortable with Hideous Blow provoking an AoO, especially since it's a least invocation, equivalent to a 1st level spell.

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

OP, your variant sounds perfectly balanced to me, good job.

Thank you, StreamOfTheSky.

I am toying with my own idea to make Hideous Blow both useful and noticeably different than Eldritch Glaive. My idea would be something like a "debuff" ability. It would remain a standard action against full AC, and you would still add EB damage to your melee damage, though I'd make sure it did not provoke an AoO as the current Hideous Blow does.

As I understand it, Rich Baker (author of Complete Arcane) intended that it not provoke an AoO, but that got left out of the official version and official errata. I could be wrong on this, though. The page I found was a copy of a post from elsewhere and I couldn't find the original post by Baker.

But after that, it would leave a lasting hex of sorts on the target until the beginning of your next turn. Anytime until then that it is struck for damage in melee, it suffers your EB damage again.

That would, indeed be HIDEOUS!

Now...that might be too strong, maybe limit it to suffering it once per any creature's turn that attacks it (so if the Fighter then full attacks it, only the first hit triggers EB damage again; then the Barbarian whacks the target on a charge and triggers it again on his turn, etc...). But that's the gist of my idea.

Right now, I'm thinking that this would be way too strong for a 1st level spell equivalent invocation. It's definitely HIDEOUS though. And, would make a good invocation that fits with the theme of the warlock. But, right now, I'd lean toward making it a higher level invocation and possibly change the extra damage that's added when attacks from secondary attackers succeed.

Most interesting.

Yours is fine, though.

Thank you. I had some help in the resurrected thread (linked in the first post).

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

As for Hrothga's version, I still need to think about it, but for now it seems okay.

Thank you, nonsi256.