Converting prehistoric creatures

[Shade]

Sounds good.

Also, Titanotylopus is 11-1/2 feet tall at the shoulder, so we might be able to fudge it up to Huge.

I don't believe a dire camel has been done yet, so we could always do one of those "inspired by" conversions.

[demiurge1138]

Huge dire camel and large giant camel?

[Shade]

Sounds great!

Stats for existing camels:

Camel: Str 18, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 2, Wis 11, Cha 4
Camel, Dromedary: Str 18, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 1, Wis 11, Cha 4
Camel, Two-Humped: Str 18, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 1, Wis 11, Cha 4
Camel, War: Str 18, Dex 16, Con 18, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 5, gains two hoof attacks

The last three are from Sandstorm, and all three have the following additional ability:

Sure Feet (Ex): War camels have broad feet that help them travel easily over sand and similar loose surfaces. They treat shallow sand as normal terrain and deep sand as shallow sand. See Sand Travel, page 18 of Sandstorm, for descriptions of shallow and deep sand.

[demiurge1138]

Well, the ur-cameloids weren't necessarily in sandy conditions, but Titanotylopus did have the true camel-toe. I think we can drop the sandwalking for the giant camel, but keep it for the dire.

We should also do something about how they require less food and water than other creatures of their size. I don't know why Sandstorm dropped camel intelligence to 1.

[RavinRay]

Sandstorm doesn't have a dire camel, but it does have a dire giraffe, the camelopardalis IIRC, which was meant for desert environments. As demiurge pointed out, some camels like Alticamelus weren't desert mammals, so maybe they didn't have any special starvation and thirst adaptations, but the dire camel could. Alticamelus is on the back flap cover of one of my prehistory books, done by the late legendary artist Zdenek Burian.

Maybe one of the Sandstorm writers got spat on by an irritated camel and dumbed down their Int as revenge.

[InsanePsychoRabbit]

Originally Posted by RavinRay

Maybe one of the Sandstorm writers got spat on by an irritated camel and dumbed down their Int as revenge.

*giggle*

Well certainly Titanotylopus is bigger than a modern camel, so we should give it better Str. Let's take the war camel abilities and bump the Str up to 20 or more.

[Shade]

Originally Posted by RavinRay

Maybe one of the Sandstorm writers got spat on by an irritated camel and dumbed down their Int as revenge.

That reminded me of Conan's experience in one of the Conan movies.

So...

Alticamelus = use giraffe stats?

Giant Camel (Titanotylopus): Str 22, Dex 16, Con 18, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 5? Give it hoof attacks like the war camel, or stick with bite only? No surefooted ability.

Dire Camel: Str 26, Dex 16, Con 22, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 5? Retain surefooted ability.

[demiurge1138]

I think "stamp" is a better wording than "hoof", and I don't see any reason why the giant camel shouldn't get 'em.

[InsanePsychoRabbit]

I think Titanotylopus should get forefoot attacks no matter what we call them. I like the ability scores.

[Shade]

I'm still a bit hazy on the associations.

Am I correct in assuming that giant camel = Titanotylopus, dire camel = no real world-equivalent, and Alticamelus isn't unique enough to warrant conversion?

[InsanePsychoRabbit]

Titanotylopus is the giant camel. There is no real-world equivalent of a dire camel.

Also, Aepycamelus (or Alticamelus if you prefer) is in a third-party supplement called Animal Archives: Prehistoric Animals I, a PDF by Blackdirge Publishing.

[demiurge1138]

Shade, I'm with you on this one.

[InsanePsychoRabbit]

Here's what I've come up with. I know that the flavor text is a bit short...the Wikipedia article is mostly about its anatomy and I don't have Zoo Tycoon 2 installed on my laptop.

Camel, Giant (Titanotylopus)
Large Animal
Hit Dice: 7d8+28 (59 hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
Armor Class: 14 (-1 size, +3 Dex, +2 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 11
Base Attack/Grapple: +5/+15
Attack: Bite +10 melee (1d6+6)
Full Attack: Bite +10 melee (1d6+6) and two stamps +5 melee (1d6+3)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: -
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +8, Will +3
Abilities: Str 22, Dex 16, Con 18, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 5
Skills: 10 points
Feats: 3
Environment: Temperate plains
Organization: Solitary or herd (5-20)
Challenge Rating: x
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: x
Level Adjustment: -

This camel is easily the size of a giraffe. Its limbs and neck are stretched out like a giraffe's but it is otherwise built like a camel, complete with a small hump.

The giant camel is a larger cousin of the modern camel, though it lives in grasslands rather than deserts.

Combat
Like a modern camel, giant camels will spit if they feel threatened. If forced into a physical confrontation, giant camels will bite and kick their attacker.

[Shade]

We're off to a good start.

Let's bump the speed to 50 ft. like the standard camel and war camel.

How about 10 ft. reach with the bite, since it has a long neck?

Demiurge recommended stampede upthread...any objections?

[demiurge1138]

10ft reach with the bite sounds good.

Feats: Alertness, Endurance, Multiattack?

[demiurge1138]

10ft reach with the bite sounds good.

Feats: Alertness, Endurance, Multiattack?

[InsanePsychoRabbit]

Those are all good. Let's go with Listen and Spot for the skills.

Advancement 8-12 HD (Large), 13-14 HD (Huge)?

When we're done with the camels, I request that we convert Sarkastodon.

[Shade]

Oh, sure, like we'd convert Sarkastodon. (Sorry, couldn't resist being sarcastic with a name like that )

Added to Homebrews.

[InsanePsychoRabbit]

Originally Posted by Shade

Oh, sure, like we'd convert Sarkastodon. (Sorry, couldn't resist being sarcastic with a name like that )

Now all we need is its weight and CR.

One resource I found says it weighs "quite a bit more than one ton." One and a half tons maybe? CR 4?

[Shade]

That sounds about right. It appears on par with a dire boar.